Froch overtakes Calzaghe is he beats Kessler, Ward,Bute

i think if he beats them conclusively, ie ahead on points before getting stoppages or getting wide uds and followed that up by beating pac..... sorry dawson then i'd say he the best supermiddle of his generation which includes jc but not sure about all time.

 

Calzaghe had a bad first round. I think he lost the last 4. Hopkins gassed did he ****. You don't gas after 4 rounds if you are an elite fighter throwing not a lot of punches per round. Watch the Winky fight or the Pavlik fights before it, and the punch output per round for 12 rounds. Hopkins could still work hard, he still has/had stamina.

Calzaghe adapted brilliant did what he was supposed to do in the southpaw stance, use the jab on the way in, his speed and higher workrate to get close and outland Hopkins, he circled to his right, kept this right foot on the outside of Hopkins' left to utilize the outside position and take away Hopkins dangerous right hand. He limited Hopkins punch output and adapted like a true world-class fighter to beat an elite top 10 P4P guy.

 

The division isn't that old. Joe Calzaghe IS the best super-middleweight of all-time so if you rank him higher than Calzaghe then Froch would be the greatest 168 of all-time.

But even as a Froch fan I will tell you now, he is not beating Kessler or Dawson. And certainly not beating Bute or Ward by wide UD's or being ahead of points if he stops them - if he beats them at all.

 

The win over Taylor ensures that will never be true.

 

Look the win over Taylor is fantastic for his resume. But the fact is he was easily 3 or 4 rounds going into that last round and was 14 seconds away from losing the fight.

If Taylor could outbox him, somebody like Kessler with greater stamina, timing, range, a better jab and straighter punches, a better chin could and will beat Froch. Bute himself has the southpaw stance, a good jab, speed, he's good on his feet. If he doesn't gas like Taylor did, he'll decision Froch aswell. Ward could easily do the same if he keeps improving, though I'd pick Froch to beat him right now.

 

when you quote evidence you need to include all the details....not everything in favour of your defendant:

Chris Eubank- took fight on 2 weeks notice.well past prime

robin Reid- SD win (why no rematch?) Reid in fight before got taken to school by Malinga

Mitchel - julio Cezar Green almost trounced Mitchel , mitchel also lost the title to Otke before Calzaghe

Bika - another contender- where is he now? ROFL

Omar Sheika - didnt he give Lacy a tough fight before Lacy foaught Calzaghe? he lost an SD to LACY - how bad was Lacy then befor ehe faced Joe .


Lacy - no ohter good fighter in a **** poor division. Showtimes flagship fighter(LACY) Joe needed a rival so the media made LAcy. nothing to justify his reputaion . Narrow SD vs Sheika where he got rocked, Pemberton was 38 and crap, Reid was way past it 34.7


Hopkins- another tight one and agian no rematch- Hopkins needed to change his name to VEIT

Kessler- Joes best win, but again all the card sstacked in Joes favour home advantage 60,000 pissed up Welshman, Kessler with one hand. He wasnt exactkly goign to pull out with 5m on the line. Like joe did vs Glenn johnson

 

as he campaigned there i would put Roy Jones ahead of JC. Can hold it agianst Jones that he didnt want to fanny about in a division fighting nobodys so moved up.

 

No he wouldn't.
And he wouldn't beat them anyway.

 

- If he beats Kessler and Bute - Froch will have a strong resume IMO.

- But I cannot see him getting past Kessler - though I hope he can.

- If he can fight the likes of Abraham and Pavlik it might spice up his resume.

 

Jones beat Toney P4P nr1/nr 2 Malinga (who destroyed Benn), Lucas after some basketball, and 3 showcase fights, Paz, etc

No one was anywhere near P4P calibre in Joes division for 11 YEARS!!!!!

!st time he faced his ONLY p4per he almost lost. and that guy was 43.


You have to look at Joes Resume....his victories an his opponents...who did they beat?

What makes an opponent credible is who they beat.

Toney Beat Nunn and many others....

Malinga beat Benn



Lacy?????? who he beat?

Kessler????

 

It seems as if you do the same with your "evidence".....

Calzaghe was a raw as they come when he took on Eubank and hadn't been tested at all. Eubank, whilst past his best was still in with a serious chance of brushing a green Calzaghe aside. This same Eubank went on to fight two wars with a man who beat David Haye. :deal

Reid was a dirty ******* against Calzaghe and the fight was a close but clear win for Joe. No mention of Calzaghe's hand injury and the fact he still won that fight? Reid went on to get jobbed against Ottke. :good

He stopped Mitchell in a few rounds in a brilliant fight - your point makes no sense whatsoever.

Most people expected Lacy to trounce Joe but he turned that on its head and dished out the biggest schooling in recent memory. Oh, how hindsight is such a wonderful thing.....:rofl

Hopkins feigned injury as Joe's relentless pace was getting to him. Had Calzaghe been rolling around in agony from a non existant low blow, you'd be calling him a cheat. :yep

What the **** does a Millenium Stadium full of Welshman have to do with Calzaghe beating Kessler. What ******ed straw clutching logic! Calzaghe would have done the same if he fought in Kessler's back yard. :hi:

 

that was my point, he beat all he had to beat in SMW then moved up unlike JC who hung around, fighting Mario Veit twice for example!

as for benn, post mclellen he was a different fighter so i dont put too much on that. benn was class simple as that.

 

We all know Froch won't have a long reign like Calzaghe, thats a fact.
Froch has two excellent wins against undefeated Pascal and former undisputed middleweight champion Taylor. If Pascal goes on to win a title at 175lbs then it will make Froch look even better.

Pascal and Taylor you could argue were better than Eubank and Branco Sobot. You can argue either way here.

Calzaghe beat Robin Reid and Richie Woodhall, Froch beat Robin Reid and Brian Magee. Froch ended both inside the distance. You could say this is similar, either way.

The middle ages for Calzaghe, wins against Jimenez, Thornberry, VeitX2, Pudwill, Salem, Ashira and Manfedo mean very little. Wins yes, but not world beaters.

I doubt Froch will face Hopkins or Roy Jones. So the only things for him left to do would be to beat another title holder, Bute etc and then unify the belts picking up the Ring against Kessler. There is a chance he may never fight Kessler however.

If Froch fights and beats Bute and Ward away from home then he deserves 100% respect.

Calzaghe was gifted the WBO title, Froch moved up the WBC rankings and waited his turn. Both won a vacant title.

If Froch were to win 1 or 2 more titles at 168's and then defend against an undefeated challenger etc it will be great.

Fights with Pavlik, Dawson, Abraham etc if he were to win, would elevate him above Calzaghe in my opinion. Remember most of the 10 year reign of Calzaghe was curtailed due to injury and unknown challengers. Due to Froch's age he has to make big statements now.

He's done well with his chances and has pulled the results out of the bag. However, he will need to improve to beat elite level fighters.

​

 

Eubank...had no chance betaing Calzaghe thats why he was picked!
Do you think Frank Warren woas going to throw Joe in with the Lions, Eubank was damaged enough and only had 2 weeks notice, the perfect critea for an opponent.

Joe alos cited Plane sickness for not goign to the US earlier. Amzing how he overcame that later.

Forget not fighting Jones/Hopkins earlier....there were so many other fighters he could have faced. having admiting he was tight at Supermiddle. why didnt he fight some contenders at Light Heavy?





THE FACT that Lacy was expected to trounce Calzaghe should tell you how **** Calzaghe was regarded. ROFL

 

I'm not even going to bother dignifying a proper response. It's clear you are a troll who has no intention of giving a great fighter like Calzaghe the credit he deserves, no matter how hard I try to convince you.