Froch V Calzaghe. A Close Fight?

I'm not joking, if he actually left this forum, I'd be devastated.

I've gone on romantic breaks with my partner, and took her iPhone out of her bag so I could log on here to read some of Bailey's posts. And I'm talking about threads that I weren't even involved in. I can remember being on a river cruise and saying "he's a maniac" out loud, with my girlfriend asking who and what I was talking about.

Regarding Joe, I'm only hard on him due to certain actions, and the fact that I think he underachieved. Which is actually a huge compliment. Whereas you could make a case for Carl overachieving. Talent wise, Joe was on another level. But I do honestly believe that it wouldn't have been a complete walkover had they fought.

 

Hiya mate,

You know he's the 'King of Spin'

Ha!

He's a master of it, and I love it. His knowledge is incredible. I read his stats of who beat who, and what they went on to do, and I'm in awe. But you know he's biased towards Joe. 100%

The Eubank fight is a prime example. We've all got different opinions on it, and if you and Bailey think it was a great win, I've honestly no issue with that whatsoever. The issue is, he details every factor that favours his argument and enhances Joe's legacy, but purposely omits any factors that go against either of those things. So I've pulled him on it, and it's up to him to fight his corner. But it's all good fun.

I'm sure he doesn't mind who gangs up on him. In fact, he probably thrives on it. You're talking about a guy who could convince someone that black was white. He even had a member say to him that he could have got Oscar Pistorios off. Ha!

I'm not anti-Joe. Whenever I've criticised him, it's always been for what I've seen as a valid reason. But I always list facts to back up my points, and my opinions are always based on logic. I have to call things how I see it, and if people don't agree, then it's up to them to come back to me. I have criticised him a lot, but it's mainly only on a handful of things. But seeing as though many of us debate the same topics over and over, everything gets repeated. But I can assure you that I've also given him a lot of praise, and I always give my honest opinions if he's featured in any fantasy threads etc. I was laughed at a few months ago, for saying that I think he could have beaten Kovalev at LHW. Also, I was quite a big fan of his when I was in my teens.


:good

 

I don't possess the required amount of intelligence to pull that off.

 

I possibly added alot to the threads but didnt start that many of recent times.
Have to say i am bored to tears with the subject

 

You are trying to push a boulder uphill, my friend. Right or wrong, I daresay you've convinced some people to a certain extent, but I think there is only so far the subject matter can be pushed.

 

I call it as it is. Remember Pascal wasnt a top SMW until after he fought Froch.
Not sure what you think im trying to spin as I give Ward credit for his win over Kessler

 

Thank you MR, but I cant see me bothering to look after replying to this thread, I got bored on the last couple.
Will have to be about other subjects and boxers after this I think

 

I understand that you wouldnt have known as much about Calzaghe early in his career but Groves (who you know I like and mentioned about early on in his career) was only at British level and at the same sort of level to Starie when Calzaghe beat him.
People who dont know the division would try and argue Johnson as a top win for Carl, forgetting Johnson was faded and boiled down and also forgetting Johnson lost when prime to Sheika who Calzaghe defended against straight after.
I will list a Calzaghe win that I rate above any of Frochs


Calzaghe ------------------------------- Froch
Eubank --------------------------------- Kessler 2
Kessler --------------------------------- Bute
Lacy ------------------------------------ Abraham
Veit 2------------------------------------ Groves 2
Reid ------------------------------------- Groves
Woodhall -------------------------------- Dirrell
Brewer ---------------------------------- Mack
Mitchell ---------------------------------- Pascal
Bika ------------------------------------- Taylor
Sheika ----------------------------------- Johnson

Note that Pascal and Taylor were not successful at SMW
I dont feel Froch has any wins on his resume as good as Eubank, undefeated Kessler or Hopkins

As for the wins

An old post below


After Eubanks fight with Calzaghe

1. Frankie Liles*, 31-1, WBA champ
2. Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 23-0, WBO champ
3. Robin Reid (Britain), 25-0-1, WBC champ
4. Joseph Kiwanuka (Uganda), 25-1-2
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   (Britain), 45-3-2

After Reid came back with a win and Malinga lost Reid was rated higher than you note when Calzaghe beat him

1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 26-0, WBO champ
2: Frankie Liles*, 32-1, WBA champ
3: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 25-1, WBC champ
4:

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(Britain), 27-1-1
Starie became
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 34-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 27-0, IBF
3: Eric Lucas (Canada), 35-4-3, WBC
4: Antwun Echols, 29-4-1
5: Robin Reid (GB), 32-3-1
6: Byron Mitchell, 25-1-1, WBA
7:

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(GB), 30-2
Sheika who you didnt note when Calzaghe beat him
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 28-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 19-0, IBF
3: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-3, WBC
4: Bruno Girard (France), 37-2-1, WBA
5: Byron Mitchell, 20-1-1
6: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1
7: Richie Woodhall (Britain), 26-2
8: James Butler, 16-1
9: Charles Brewer, 35-6
10:

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20-1
Woodhall - Beyer who beat Woodhall was KOd by Woodhall victim Catley
1: Joe Calzaghe* (Britain), 29-0, WBO
2: Sven Ottke (Germany), 20-0, IBF
3: Bruno Girard (France), 38-2-1, WBA
4: Byron Mitchell, 21-1-1
5:

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(Britain), 26-2
6: Dingaan Thobela (South Africa), 40-7-2, WBC
7: Glenn Catley (Britain), 26-4
8: Markus Beyer (Germany), 18-1
Veit when Calzaghe fought him a 2nd time
1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 38-0, WBO

2: Jeff Lacy, 19-0-0-1, IBF

3: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 35-0, WBA

4: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 32-2, WBC

5: Danny Green (Australia), 19-2

6: Mads L****n* (Denmark), 45-2

7: Robin Reid (GB), 38-4-1, IBO

8: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 23-2

9:

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(Germany), 45-1

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you note who also wasnt coming off a loss

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you note, but you dont note how Mitchell was coming off a SD loss to Ottke which was very debateable.

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did enter into the ratings after his KO win of the undefeated European SMW champ 26-0 J Chanet
Ashira was rated at MW

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, Champion

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you note

Bika before he fought Calzaghe

1: Joe Calzaghe* (GB), 41-0, WBO/IBF

2: Mikkel Kessler (Denmark), 37-0, WBA

3: Markus Beyer* (Germany), 34-2-1, WBC

4: Jeff Lacy, 21-1-0-1

5: Anthony Mundine (Australia), 26-3

6: Librado Andrade, 24-0

7: Danny Green (Australia), 21-3

8: Allan Green, 22-0

9: Rudi Markussen (Denmark), 33-1

10:

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(Australia), 20-1-2
Manfredo wasnt coming off a loss and was world rated

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, Champion

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you note

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, Champion

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So if you work out how many fighters were top 10 rated and how many became top 10 rated after Calzaghe beat them he fought 22 SMW title fights and 15 were or became top 10 rated. I havent included Ferreyra who had been top 10 rated before fighting Calzaghe

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, Thats very good but even better when you note Calzaghes LHW career, because as a career total it becomes

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But you are still wrong because he fought

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fighters who were rated when he fought them. Reid, Sheika, Woodhall, Veit2, Brewer, Mitchell, Ashira, Manfredo, Lacy, Kessler, Jones, Hopkins, Bika. Eubank got rated for his loss so could be included to make

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As for Kessler, his resume is not as well known as Frochs which is where many fall down with not knowing who Calzaghe fought and it is each to their own but overall I think Kessler and Frochs resumes are very similar

Kessler has the win over undefeated Froch
Froch has the win over end of career Kessler
Froch has the win over Bute, Kessler has the win over Beyer
Froch has the win over Abraham, Kessler has the win over Mundine
It goes on but for accomplished SMWs I think Kessler has the more quality SMW wins when you think Beyer was a champ, Mundine was between reigns, Siaca was a champ, many seemed to feel Andraded was unfortunate against Bute first time round, Lucas was a former SMW champ and still top 10 rated, Sartison went on like Abraham to become a champ.
Froch beat Kessler, Abraham who became a champ, Bute

Seems close

 

bailey

Of course it doesn't make Bute a non factor. But you can't say that DeGale is about to face a top SMW.

Eubank wasn't a non factor in his fight against Joe. It was Joe's biggest fight, against a legend of British boxing. But he wasn't a factor in the SMW division when the fight was signed. That's the point that me and Dino are making.

It doesn't matter what he'd done in the past. You can say that Joe fought one of the greatest SMW's of all time. But you can't say that Eubank was a great SMW when he agreed to take the fight. What he was, was a once great SMW. So it's just silly of you to claim that Joe beat a top 5 SMW, implying that he was top 5 at the time. He wasn't. He hadn't had a win at the weight for 3 years, he hadn't fought there for 2 years, and he'd been preparing to fight at LHW. Everyone had assumed that he'd left SMW and he wasn't coming back.

 

Funny thing is, I liked Calzaghe but not to the extent that some on here would think, but I found he was a boxer who several posters didnt really know the full facts about and were incorrect about, which prompted debate after debate.

 

He was top 5 the day after.
Similar to how Pascal became a top SMW after Froch

 

Maybe its time for a new subject

 

how about day beofore for pascal too, which is what loudon is telling you. Pascal was a legit top ranked SMW well before froch.


not a standin from two divisions away. more failey lies, the two could not be more different.