From 1-10, how high are a prime Louis' chances against a prime Ali?

For the longest time I have always thought Ali would beat him because of styles and his movement... but now I'm starting to wonder and might revise that opinion.... some of Ali's fights in his prime years were absolute stinkers. He was horrid against Doug Jones and Henry Cooper is not Joe Louis....

 

When I saw the thread my first thought was 4 maybe 5 at best.

 

Let's just pop Joe Louis in place of Henry Cooper one split second after the left hook lands on Ali and stuns him in their first fight. Louis would close him out and badly. I think at certain stages of Ali's career, he is more beatable for a great fighter like Louis. Overall, best-for-best, it is harder to go above a 4 for me.

 

4 out of 10 for me.

 

10

his 'chances' are as good, the same or better, just like all other Top Flight Fighters are... I think he'd have a harder time against strong tough dangerous men like a Foreman or a Tyson.

 

We can do that with all of them tho. Those two fights are a bit before he won the title. Louis got belted by Schmeling pre title and had his share of stinkers as well. Have a look at Louis - Conn and Billy Conn is certainly not Muhammad Ali. He had two scary moments against Galento, dropped by Braddock, looked human with Godoy. At their very best you could argue Louis had more struggles than Ali.

Ali from his win over Liston all the way to exile fought at a very very high level and with consistency as well. He wasn't dropped during that whole period and had no scares at all unlike Louis.

Both fought for a long time and had their ups and downs. Both almost always came thru with the goods. It's perfectly fine to favor either one but zeroing in on Jones and Cooper sure isn't the criteria to do it with.

 

Louis the HUGE favourite I don’t see anything less then a mismatch. Ali was baffled by Norton, If Futch and Ken shut him down Louis and Blackburn will only improve.

Just because you never saw Ali in the 60s struggle against a Norton tier guy doesn’t mean it wouldn’t happen, the same flaws were there- more even he just didn’t have the comp to capitalise on it this creating the illusion of some magical prime.

Louis will wear him down, down stairs and remind us of Ali’s legendarily ability to avoid a left hook. Ali can’t do anything with Louis he’s got none of the aces in any department expect being able to take a shot.

 

I used to look at it that way too, but now starting to wonder about it. Unfortunately, the Liston fights to me are badly tainted.

I can now see why so many thought Liston would destroy him, and had Ali not been involved with the violent group he was a part of, I wonder if those fights would have turned out differently.

 

I’d give Joe 4-5.

 

Think again, I done thunk you had it right the first time!
Jones was just b4 his prime, & he coul dnot have been that bad, he clearly won & was in no danger of being KOed.
Tyson was slightly worse immediately pre-prime against a fighter who lost 4 of his last 5 fights, Tillis.
Every fighter has weaker fights-even in his prime.

Louis great as he was LOS& & was KOed at the same stage of his career as Ali was against Jones.
He was completely prime when Conn almost beat him.
Farr ran him close, arguably Godoy the first time...

 

That wasn't Ali's prime he was still developing as a fighter vs Cooper, Jones. His prime was when he won the title from Liston, and then up until the Folley fight, which was his last fight before the 3 year absence from boxing. I think his actual peak was 66-67, when he had some of his most memorable performances vs Terrell, Williams, etc.

 

Maybe. I have to sit and actually watch the entire Jones fight without interruption all the way through and score it. I've always been told he should have lost that fight.... Yes, fighters peak at different times, one or two fights don't always tell the full story, but the more I watch, I'm starting to actually entertain the thought of giving Louis a chance now.... maybe I'll change again wh knows...

 

You don't have to watch the Jones fight to work out who you favor between ali and Louis best for best. It was Ali's 18th fight. Joe Louis got beaten from pillar to post in his 25th fight. would you need to watch that to deduce a winner? Louis was further forward than Ali at those two points.

The reality is those two fights mean ZERO as to who would win best vs best.

 

The bell saved Ali and he was completely recovered when the next round started, so I don't see Louis finishing him off.

Anyhow, you can as well do a replace Farr and Conm with a peak Ali. And if Schmeling found it easy to drop a right over Louis's jab, what would Ali do to him? Etc etc.

Usually when you do h2hs like these you can find instances when both guys are likely do better than some of the other guy's opponents that gave him a hard time.