From 1-10, how high are a prime Louis' chances against a prime Ali?

This

 

Because Ali was knocked out so many times in his twenty year, sixty one fight professional career. I know what literally means and Joe would have had to literally kill any iteration of pre 1980 Ali to stop him.

 

Then he does. First time for everything.

 

He faced some of the hardest punchers in heavyweight history including Sonny Liston, George Foreman, and Earnie Shavers, one after his prime, and one when he was essentially done and wasn't stopped. In fact he wasn't even dropped.

 

True but he never fought Louis.

 

The only mover close to the caliber of Ali Louis beat was a thirty three year old Jersey Joe Walcott in a hotly contested split decision and Ali was three and one half inches taller, twenty pounds heavier, with six extra inches of reach, and infinitely faster of foot and hand. Ali had sixty one fights, three or four when he was practically a mummy, and was never stopped. Joe Louis wouldn't have been the first.

 

I’ve always given Louis more chance than the average bear does. Call me Yogi. Ha!

Ali deserves to be favourite - but I see a LOT in Louis’ arsenal that could give Ali some significant trouble.

Remember, the one that spruiked and advertised most that Louis couldn’t beat him - was Ali himself. He spoke often enough about a fighter he supposedly believed he could beat easily.

We can point to “lesser”’fighters having done this, that and the other on both sides of the ledger to forecast even better results for the “greater” fighter.

However, imo, one has to acknowledge the whole dynamic between two fighters - including mindset going in.

There can be a feature or features to the “lesser” fighters game that better exploits weaknesses in the “greater” fighters game - better than most if not all opponents otherwise - including other opponents who are also greater than the “lesser” fighter.

Confused? You should be. Lol.

Making it easier, relying on an actual example and remaining with Cooper: -

First fight. Huge KD. But, Ali not quite prime, not properly focused and trying to fight to prediction - but still, showing a vulnerability to the left hook, examples of same preceding that fight - and a vulnerability that remained with him for life going forward.

Second fight. Ali within his acceptable prime. Properly focused, so avoids getting hit flush by the hook. BUT, at least imo, Cooper STILL providing as a very awkward customer - and, despite an horrendous cut, Ali nowhere near hurting a blinded Cooper enough to put him down.

So, had we not had that rematch, we might’ve surmised that Ali had vastly improved between the Cooper and Liston fights - his having prevailed much more impressively over a much greater fighter (than Cooper) in Liston.

Ali did improve between those two fights and was certainly perfectly focused for Liston.

However, we have the Cooper rematch and while Ali had improved, in the face of that same Cooper, those improvements didn’t appear as dramatic as they did appear when ONLY comparing Ali’s 63 performance against a “lesser” ‘opponent to his performance against a much “greater” fighter in Liston in 64.

After taking the scenic route to get there, the point is that the success(es) of a lesser opponent (with their own, unique stylistic advantages) don’t always translate or be potentially extrapolated into even better success for an opponent who is a clearly “greater” fighter in the overall sense.

In the same realm of thinking, Louis’ performance in the Conn fight might’ve been extrapolated into Joe losing to other opponents that he did, in fact, prevail over (and in many cases, emphatically so) during his actual career.

 

So the manś invincible? He could not be knocked out by anyone ever, is that correct?

 

He wasn't knocked out in sixty one professional fights despite facing three of heavyweight boxing history's hardest hitters (Sonny Liston, George Foreman, and Earnie Shavers) and he was essentially done when he whupped Shavers. I reckon he could have been knocked out. The fact he never was even when he washed suggests the task would have been Herculean.

 

But still possible, he was only human.

 

Don't forget Joe Frazier who actually did drop Ali and had him in immense trouble in an earlier round.

Here it is for your viewing pleasure -

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Tyson was right when he said he looked like a model but was a "----ing animal" in the ring

 

I'm going with a 2 for Louis. This is not an indictment of the Brown Bomber or a comparison of their overall skills. For me it's the fact that Joe's one big weakness, foot speed, is a very bad flaw when going up against prime Ali. This is not to say he couldn't catch, hurt and even possibly stop Ali. He certainly could. I just don't think he would.

 

Personally i don't think Frazier was that good looking!!!!!

 

Always an intriguing, enjoyable, interesting watch. Thank you for posting the video. One more thing, Frank Sinatra was not a good announcing sidekick. Way too many clichés and excited utterances.