From 1974 onwards, Would Ali Have Lost To Prime Holmes?

That's basically what Tyson said, that Ali looked like a model but would have died in the ring. He had the tools and would have found a way, up to a point of course. Obviously there comes a time when the body just won't comply with the mind

 

Manila was October '75, a year apart from Zaire and Frazier-Ali II. That's the version I consider his swan's song — the last glimpse of his old self. That being said, I wouldn't favor this version over prime Holmes at all. He would definitely give him twelve round hell though.

 

I’d favour the Ali up to about ‘74 also.

Interesting though, not here but I have a read a lot of other people who only give the pre exile Ali advantage over prime Holmes, with prime Larry beating any 70s version.

I guess it comes down to how fine a gap you have between the prime versions of each man.

In the face of Holmes own style and accents, I guess it would also come down to how you might gage the effectiveness of Ali’s pre exile mobility/defence vs that of his
of his less mobile, more durability based strategies employed in the 70s.

For one thing, I would say that perhaps any form or measure of Ali employing laying on the ropes all the way to an express rope a dope strategy (as favoured in the 70s) would be to his disadvantage v Larry.

For Holmes, maybe Ali would look to recapturing as much mobility as possible (viz 212 lbs, dancing weight for Norton). Hard to say - even Ali’s own corner didn’t know what he had in mind and thought best for himself at times - specifically Zaire -

 

I'd happily take Ali in the 60's and in the 70's i'd narrowly favor him up until post Foreman. After that he wasn't paying his dues.

 

Ali would of always lost to Holmes just like Ali would of always lost to Ken Norton. Ali struggled with anybody who could move or box. That is why Ali struggled with 180 pound Doug Jones in a fight most people think he lost.

 

Norton wasn`t that good at moving and boxing, he had a good jab though and was able to disrupt Ali`s jab

 

Doug Jones was a cutesy fighter. Norton was a swarmer.

 

Holmes was cuter than Jones anyway.

 

Did you see the Godfather Of Harlem on EPIX? One of the episodes was on that fight? Back to Norton. He didn't move that much. In fact he dragged that right foot.

 

I didn`t see it.

 

Holmes pornstache doesn't begin to compare to Doug's.

 

Its about Bumpy Johnson who ran the heroin trade in Harlem in the 60s. Malcolm X who knew Bumpy when the former was a street hustler plays a prominent role because they still remained friends. Anyway the Jones fight is one of the episodes.

 

Cutesy fighter=Out Boxer=Fancy Dan. Think Ali, Tunney, Leonard though Leonard could also be characterized as a boxer puncher.

 

The odds in my opinion

Prime Ali In the 60s - 60/40 Ali

70-74 - 50/50

75 - 60/40 Holmes

Post 75 - Heavily favour Holmes. Ali a big underdog.

 

From 1976 on. Not before that. Post Manila.