From Ring mag website: 10 greatest British fighters of all time

Good post.

I wouldn't argue that Calzaghe wasn't past his physical prime, I would be stupid to do so.... but mentally he was at the top of his game.

I am not saying that Lewis wasn't, but I am sure you understand my PoV.

I don't think that Calzaghe beat Hopkins, in truth, but anyway, the judges gave him it so will have to give him credit for it.

So...........

Does Lewis >>>> Calzaghe in your view, or vice-versa?

 

I agree with the Kessler/Vitali point....not cos I think Kessler is that much better than Klitschko, but because the manner of victory is much more comprehensive for Calzaghe

I actually think Joe Calzaghes 2nd tier wins are very good and are what just puts him above Hatton in my opinion

 

How about this.....does Hatton have the best/more credible biggest win due to Tszyu being younger than Hopkins and Tyson or do you say Hatton lost to his best opponent in Mayweather and therefore is the lesser of the 3 when it comes to rankings??

That said....have Lewis or Calzaghe fought anyone as good and as in their prime as Mayweather?? Just to confuse things

 

Pffffffffffft................................

Hatton faced a better opponent, P4P or H2H than either Lewis or Calzaghe, but other than five competitive rounds, was outclassed - not sparked by a lucky punch.

I think Hatton is below Lewis and Calzaghe, but not as much as people feel. Unless Hatton goes on a long time, he won't rack up enough to beat Lewis, but could go infront of Calzaghe.

IMO anyway.

 

Yes, I understand your view point and yes, I do think Lewis edges it. I'm too tired to get in to much depth BB but basically I think Lennox beat all that he could available to him and did it very convincingly. I think he does lack in marquee wins: on the face of it, you would have to say a still capable Holyfield and Klitschko are the best. But he has a win over a whole host of belt holders and top contenders like Mercer, Golota, Rahman, Tua, Ruddock, Morrison, Briggs, McCall etc etc. He also avenged both losses.

The manner of his victories were all very convincing too, and I recognise that he could only beat what was put in front of him.

However, I could argue and strongly, that JC is better. However, I don't quite believe that as of now although I feel things could become very interesting if JC fights and beats a very good young Champion like Dawson...which would represent another marquee wins for Calzaghe.

However for now Lewis has the edge. He was a great fighter, someone who I have began to apprciate more now that he's been gone for a while.

 

If Hatton beats Pac, he has a great shout of being ahead of Calzaghe imo.

IF he beats Pac and Marquez, he's ahead of him, no question.

 

No doubt really that if Hatton beats Manny in a competetive fight then he would have to be ranked at least on a par with Calzaghe...but then the detractors would say he's just a blown up flyweight etc etc you know the drill

Does Calzaghe's undefeated career carry more or less weight than it should when it comes to ranking him?

 

If you move to the second tier...

Calzaghes 2nd tier and the rest of his resume aside from an past best Hopkins and Kessler is nothing special and no better then a lot of fighters ie Ottke, Erdie, DariosW, Dutchboysam etc etc. That is something I said 10 pages ago... trying to make the point that he should not be ranked at no4 and so far ahead of Lewis.

 

Lennox edges it for me because there were no 'pretenders' in the HW division whilst he was in charge.

I would have said Joe was the man pretty much from '97 onwards, but there were plenty. Too many 'former' champs on his resume than 'current' ones.

 

I think most people agree Lewis should be above Calzaghe but in terms of British rankings, not European rankings where Ottke/Dariusz M etc would be factored in.....Calzaghe's 2nd tier in terms of beating former world champions just edges him above Hatton

 

He did hold every belt worth anything in the SMW division....but it took a LONG time to do so

Lennox was undisputed champ and avenged every defeat.....

Hatton was a machine and a 2 weight champ before facing arguably the best fighter since RJJ

So do accomplishments rank above names when ranking guys as well???

 

It wasn't his fault that the other man in the division blatantly didn't want to fight him and practically held that IBF Title hostage in Germany.

WBC changed hands about 18 times during JC's WBO reign: you could hardly draw breath before there was a new champ!

Lewis also suffered in this regard, which I do factor in by the way when I have these discussion, I have sympathy for their plight and understand they fought who the could. Think how much better Lewis would look if say hypothetically...

1. He fights and beats a Prime Riddick Bowe.
2. He then meets Holyfield far earlier equipped with his status as being the man in the division.
3. A returning Tyson has to go through Lennox to be Champion and thus has to face him.

However, this is assuming that he wins the first two bouts....McCall showed how vulenrable a pre-Steward Lewis could be so he might never have got that far....and could've lost to those guys when they were nearer their primes, boosting any arguments that a prime Holyfield would've beaten him etc. The McCall loss was probably a blessing in disguise.

Anyway, tangent. Point is Lewis faced the best fighters available to him and dealt with them comfortably for the most part. Calzaghe has not faced as many good fighters as Lewis did overall and thats what tips it for me. The marquee victories of Lewis are lacking, but that is definetly not his fault, and Klit and Holy are not at all bad anyway.

 

I agree it puts him above Hatton. I wouldn't have Hatton above Calzaghe.

I was just trying to highlight about how ordinary the rest of Calzaghes resume is. I'm not saying it is rubbish, but in the context of absolute boxing legends I don't think it is anything out the ordinary and worthy of the credit it is being given in this list (ie to place him so far ahead of Lewis, who has a deep resume, and at no4 - the authur is placing a huge amount on the 0, imo).

 

I'm a big Calzaghe fan and would tend not to disagree with this post...but if the CVs are that close/that open to scrutiny does it not just come down to who was the better skilled boxer??

That means you have the left jab and huge right of Lewis, the speed and combinations of Calzaghe and the force and body shots of Hatton

even with literally everything factored in it's still gonna be down to personal opinion

 

I agree in terms of Lewis then Calzaghe then Hatton

But as beatboxer said Lewis' CV can be picked at, theres no Bowe, Ruiz, Tyson was a shot fighter, he lost to guys who should have beaten in McCall and Rahman, struggled with Vitali and Ruddock

That said I like Lennox's record a lot and would have him 2 or 3 on the British ATG list

He was a very cautious boxer though.....the opposite of Hatton and Calzaghe