Fundamentals are a crutch for the talentless: True or False?

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by brown bomber, Feb 12, 2012.


  1. brown bomber

    brown bomber 2010 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    ????:good

    Debate....

    I say true and i'll explain why later
     
  2. pichuchu

    pichuchu Well-Known Member Full Member

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    True
    Fundamentals hides/ takes away from the fact you are lacking from talents such as speed, power or a boxing brain

    Those talents i mentioned cover up the lack of good fundamentals a fighter has
     
  3. Dark Sider

    Dark Sider Well-Known Member Full Member

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    We're all talentless if we're getting hit, have no stamina, punch with no power, etc.

    Just being able to throw a proper jab and bring it back on a straight line, along with some basic movement has helped me a ton.

    Talent only shines after you work hard. Amir Khan was/is SUPER talented, but he wasn't consistent except in getting knocked down until he got with Roach. He STILL has great speed, outboxing. It's just not enough.
     
  4. brown bomber

    brown bomber 2010 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    :good
     
  5. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    I'll say false, because even the most talented and unconventional boxers often use a great deal of know-how in setting up shots, using the right angles to counter, measuring distance, maintaining balance, etc. Fundamentals may be more vital to someone without greater physical gifts, but I see it as a set of legs more than a crutch.
     
  6. gumbo2176

    gumbo2176 Active Member Full Member

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    I've got to agree with that. You can hide some lack of talent just by looking like you know what you are doing----but that only lasts for so long. Sooner or later, lack of talent shows in the same way a talented fighter lacking conditioning gets exposed.
     
  7. BRICKS

    BRICKS the Pride of the Tribe Full Member

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    roy jones jr has talent. its the lack of fundamentals that left him on his back sleeping

    same can be said for many fighters. pulling their heads straight back as defense instead of the fundamental way.
     
  8. pichuchu

    pichuchu Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No the loss of his speed and reflexes are what left him on his back. Know everyone says jones has bad fundamentals and every time he has gotten KTFO he has made fundamental errors but when he has his speed and reflexes (TALENTS) no one really commented on his bad fundamentals because they were well hidden
     
  9. Matty lll

    Matty lll Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree with this, I can see the other side of the argument though.
     
  10. CHAL_DIESEL

    CHAL_DIESEL GOAT Full Member

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    I wouldn't say talentless, but those who are not blessed with natural ability, such as strength, speed, quickness
     
  11. CHAL_DIESEL

    CHAL_DIESEL GOAT Full Member

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    what left RJJ sleeping was the fact he lost his agility like most athletes do once they reach a certain age, or a certain amount of wear, and tear.
     
  12. Dark Sider

    Dark Sider Well-Known Member Full Member

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    And Bernard Hopkins didn't lose that agility? Or James Toney?

    Tucking the chin to chest, shoulder roll, and never over-committing kept them safe well past their prime. Even if B-Hop's chin was glass, we'd never know.
     
  13. PNoyFightFanUSN

    PNoyFightFanUSN Larry Don't Give a **** Full Member

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    Solid Fundamentals enhance talent. I don't necessarily agree with them being a crutch.
     
  14. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    The thing is, Jones never had time to transition his style to correlate with the drastic changes his body was going through. Hopkins and Toney use the same set of fundamentals, but fight at a completely different pace and set up their offense very differently than they did as younger men. Jones showed great Ring IQ and skill in the way he slipped and countered on the outside or inside when appropriate, the way he angled his body, the way he feinted and baited, the way he moved laterally, etc. Had he the time to age gracefully, I don't think it absurd to believe he could have developed a more sound conventional guard and gone on to impress us with a Hopkins or Toney like compensation for a decline in athletic ability; maybe not to the same extent or in the same fashion, but similar.
     
  15. Steenalized

    Steenalized Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No. Other way around. Talent is a crutch for a lack of fundamentals. Talent lets you get away with **** that you shouldn't be able to.