Fury Vs The Heavyweight Greats

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahaha!!!!!!
esb in a nutshell.

 

Thats a whole lotta Fury

 

I'm not a Fury fan, but I got to admit that H2H he is very good...

 

Hi Miniq

 

Agreed. That's Why I bring ot up.

 

I respect that, but what are you going off of exactly?

 

Hate these threads until a boxer retires.

Don't get me wrong, I love them as well.

But things change so quickly with a current career.

Fury loses to Whyte and everyone changes their picks again.

 

If you take Ali, Holmes, Lewis, Foreman, I think if Fury had a series of fights against each of them then I think he'd win a fair percentage of them but definitely lose some of them. Which means that is the bracket he is in. With those names

 

When you talk about records you can't compare the records of men from 50 years ago with those from today: many styles and body types that exist today at heavyweight either did not exist back then or existed in miniscule numbers. Is 6'1, 190 lbs southpaw Karl Mildenberger from 66' better than 6'5, 235 lbs southpaw Otto Wallin from 2019? Because if he's not, Wallin at his best may well beat 66' Ali on styles. Fury is a great fighter of his generation, with a better record than all of his contemporaries, who are the only fighters you can make relevant comparisons with. All factors have to be considered, including number of defeats, number of gift decisions, beating long-reigning champions (who are also 6'5+ KO artists with more power than any historical heavyweight) doing it in their backyards and coming back from adversity.

Fury managed to disarm Wilder's power in the second fight but Wilder was not physically or mentally prepared for Fury's assault, he was able to land big bombs on a defensive Fury in the first fight and on an aggressive Fury in the third fight. Fury isn't just "someone good", he's a fighter with unprecedented and unique attributes. As already established, the problem with Wilder isn't just power: he's longer and faster with a single punch than any past heavyweight you care to name, which means on any given night he has a very good chance of landing critical bombs first. And he can take more punishment than many of the greats too, along with massive determination and experience. His skills are not even that bad when he wants to box: Stiverne and Duhaupas lost virtually every round, Arreola lost every round against a Wilder with a broken right hand from the 4th and the punch stats in Fury 1 were pretty close. In most fights Wilder was looking for a KO punch, not to win points on the scorecards.

 

Mike Tyson would have destroyed him by countering his jab, Fury over commits with his jab bringing his head closer to his opponent, he`s a sucker for right hands.

 

That can be switched round though: beating old Holyfield x2 and Vitali is not sufficient evidence that he can beat Tyson Fury. Then there's the matter of the two fringe contenders who sparked Lewis out.

 

If Fury loses to Whyte this heavyweight division is even weaker than we thought.

 

Not comparable, at all really. Lennox fought a variety of contenders and fighters of the elite that PROVED his h2h stand point, lets take a look at Fury's which can prove a h2h ability.

Deontay Wilder

Old Wlad

Chisora

Thats the most elite I can name really, if he beats Whyte thats another to the list.

How does that compare to Lennox's?

You have Mike Weaver, Tyrell Biggs, Ruddock, Bruno, Morrison, Briggs, Golota and a past prime but formidable Holyfield who went on to become the only 4x heavyweight champion.

 

Bottom line, Wilder and Fury have terrible records, which in my opinion they are not ATG's. The old ATG's fought the better comp for the era. Fury and Wilder have not. Fundamentally Wilder is horrible compared to the ATG's. That's what I go by. You go buy giants of today beating smaller ATG' of the past as reasoning for putting them above past greats. I don't look at it that way.

 

For a start Fury fought Wilder three times and Chisora twice. You're more likely to lose to a fighter if you fight him twice or three times than once. Secondly, Chisora isn't as good as 6'3 mover and 2x cruiser champ Cunningham: a fighter with no stylistic/body type parallel on Lewis's record, and Chisora is not as good as 6'5 southpaw Wallin, another fighter with no stylistic parallel on Lewis's record. Thirdly, Lewis fought no one with the speed and power of Wlad or Wilder and no one remotely stylistically similar to Wilder. Fourthly, Lewis got KO'd by two fringe contenders and despite being a boxer-puncher, failed to beat opponents inside the distance (who were on average lighter than Fury's) on 10 occasions. An AIDS-infected Tommy Morrison, McCline-victim Briggs, mental and chinny Golota, washed up crack addict Biggs et all don't add up to much, they're just contenders at best. Wlad beat a good few more of these types than Lewis did but elite fighters are expected to beat these guys and not get KO'd by them. It's the top wins on your record that are the most important in H2H, not having a nice collection of B and C level wins.