Fury's comeback and the Heavyweight division

Totally. It was a scrappy fight and some punches got through both ways. People making out Fury danced away from Wlad all night miss the fact they traded a few good punches along the way and it wasn't a particularly wide decision either. Still a massive upset, taking nothing away!

 

"These are average fighters"

You conceded years ago that Ortiz would probably beat Whyte and Parker even after he had lost to Wilder. And you rated Martin above Takam before 42+ 2 KO defeat Ortiz KO'd him.

You considered Helenius "high Euro level" and "too dangerous for Wilder" but he became a standard Wilder opponent after Wilder KO1'd him. Breazeale likewise was a "solid fringe contender" before he got starched.

Whyte looked well below "average" when he fought Fury (performing worse than Wilder in his worst attempt of three), yet he beat "world level" Parker.

You rated Wilder as the 2nd best heavyweight in the world after Joshua KO'd Povetkin. The real reasons why you downgraded him are:

1. Joshua suffered arguably the most humiliating defeat ever to Ruiz, so everyone else had to be criticised more proportionately to prop up Joshua

2. Wilder lost to undefeated Wlad-conqueror Fury, who you were rating outside the top 14 and below Chisora and Kownacki in 2019

Wilder was finished after Fury KO'd him for a second time. He's America's most significant HW since Holyfield and will be in the HoF. He's got three losses, like Joshua. Fury-Usyk is the ultimate fight for supremacy in the era, everything else is a sideshow.

 

Who has Ortiz beat? His most notable win is Jennings (whose most notable wins was against Spzilka and controversial win against Perez).

Whilst Whyte has beaten the likes of:

Povetkin - Beaten the likes of Whyte, Byrd, Chagaev, Takam, Huck, and Perez.

Parker- who has beaten the likes Ruiz, Zhang Chisora Wilder and Takam (a far superior record compared to Wilder let alone Ortiz).

Rivas - who beat Jennings.

Chisora - who has a comparable record to the likes Ortiz and Wilder in terms of quality of opposition beaten by beating the likes Takam, Price, Spzilka, Scott and Washington.

Wilder in the Parker fight was the same limited Wilder with the exact same flaw we saw lose rounds and struggle to likes Washington, Spzilka and Ortiz.

Wilder achievements where gazumped b fellow American Ruiz when he became unified champion and did what Wilder failed to do and beat a proven World level boxer to do so. Ruiz also proved a tougher test against Parker, Parker delt with Wilder with ease and won every round (what you predicted Wilder would win easily).

 

"Who has Ortiz beat?"

Good enough opposition and in good enough fashion for you to rate him above Whyte and Parker on ability in mid-late 2018. According to your own statements Ortiz KO'd better fighters than Chisora and Takam, two of the fighters who openly avoided Ortiz.

"Whilst Whyte has beaten the likes of:

Povetkin"

Just lol. Why do you think Povetkin 2 put up far less resistance to Whyte than Allen? Was the Povetkin 2 Whyte leagues and leagues better than the Allen Whyte? Or was Povetkin a sick old man who was falling over his own feet before Whyte even landed a punch?

If Povetkin counts as a "prime/legit/notable win" for Whyte then we may as well count Belfort's win over Holyfield.

 

**** him, he had been using his own size against opponents for years to win fights. That was long overdue. Not missed from the heavyweight division.

 

@Mitch87 and @Redbeard7 going toe to toe

this one has been a long time in the making. To quote Jim Lampley “Aren’t you glad you bought a ticket”

 

What are they arguing about? I know styles make fights, but Joshua’s win over Parker has aged very well.

@Beale You can no longer criticise Joshua’s win over Parker on his resume!

 

I think it works both ways. Parker holding that version of Joshua to a fairly dull points win, with Parker on the front-foot for much of the fight, maybe showed capability back then that he's only showing again now. Still think that loss and the rapid next one against Whyte set JP back for years.

Also easy to forget, that PPV was the most-watched ever on Sky! A paying audience with viewing figures Sky would kill for on its football coverage.

 

Yes the Fury of the second Wilder fight was superb. No one can claim he wasnt as good that night as he was any night of his career. However, his motivation has clearly dipped. He was horrific against the UFC fighter and Usyk batters him if he ever dares step in the ring.

The facts are that now Fury is past it and he does not have the motivation to get back to where he was or the time.

 

I don't have access to my boxing essays right now but it's inarguable that 1. Ortiz was heavily avoided 2. consistently performed well against mutual opponents pre-Hammer relative to rivals like Joyce, Pulev, Parker and Whyte 3. was virtually 50-50 with Ruiz 4.5 years after his 1st KO defeat to Wilder.

"Top 30-top 50"

Unless this is an entirely subjective assessment it makes no sense. 30-0 Ortiz was top 5 with every rankings body of repute that I am aware of and Wilder has seven wins over "top 14" opponents according to PBO.

Fury and Usyk are virtually 50-50 oddswise. Let's say that Fury beats Usyk once or twice and retires; Wilder's record clearly appreciates (especially the Fury draw). He would have outperformed two ATG fighters in fights where Fury was presumably 100% dialled in mentally.

Wilder was brought along slowly after starting boxing 3 days removed from his 20th birthday, in a climate where America had been expunged from the elite at HW. He was only moved up to legit top 5 level or higher in 2018, performed well, had a strong 2019 and then suffered a psychologically crushing defeat in 2020, followed by an even more physically damaging defeat in 2021, about to turn 36 and lightweight for a HW. Mentally I think the losses to Fury were among the most taxing ever at championship level, so his career at the very top was relatively short.

 

Regarding the division, I'd say it's been an era of interesting stories, with not an elite array of fighters.