Fury's resume isn't any better than Chris Byrd's

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Glass City Cobra, Nov 15, 2022.



  1. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree with your general sentiment. Fury carries a greater status at Heavyweight than Byrd ever did.

    However, apart from the potential debate over who owns the better wins, there are some other key differences, which separate them in the resume (and related aspects) department...

    - I think Fury not getting sparked out by a relatively unproven contender is a big difference.
    - I'd also say Fury being the victim of a suspect decision (Wilder I), as opposed to Byrd being the recipient of more gifts than parents-to-be at a baby shower, is another point of separation.
    - On the back of the previous point, I would suggest that Fury's wins have been more emphatic than those of Byrd.


    Just a thought or five...
     
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  2. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    I didn't say they were in his league. I said size alone was never an issue for Wladmir.

    Of course Fury would be a challenge for even the best version of Wladmir. But the point is that wasn't the best version of Wladmir. And the Holmes who fought Spinks was nowhere near the best version of Holmes.

    That's basically been the main focus of the discussion and for some reason people insist on pretending Wladmir was still the same old Wladmir and Fury just had all the answers to frustrate him. Yes Fury's weird style and mind games might have played a factor but Wladmir didn't go from being great to completely washed up in one fight because of one opponent
     
  3. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    That's actually a good point. Tua is a big win for Byrd given what he accomplished, especially compared to Chisora or Whyte who are Fury's 3-4th best wins.
     
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I agree with this. But what would you consider Fury best five names by resumes listing only one name once?

    And Byrd's?
     
  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    He didn't need to beat Vitali 3x because Vitali didn't pursue rematches.

    Wladmir was ahead of Hoylfield in ranking only. In terms of h2h, they were on the same level.
     
  6. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    He was gunshy against Joshua too. Wladmir admitted he hesitated when he had Joshua hurt. He wasn't as hesitant as he was against Fury, but it was still a problem.
     
  7. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Klitschko admitting to being gun-shy all the way back in 2002 against McCline

    "
    This content is protected


    https://www.espn.com/boxing/news/2002/1207/1473387.html
     
  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Being a safety first fighter and being gunshy are two different things.

    Joe Bugner was a safety first fighter but he didn't freeze up or have deer in headlights syndrome the minute things get hectic. Bugner could throw punches when he saw openings are pull the trigger when an opponent was hurt.

    I never said Fury had nothing to do with why Wladmir hesitating. But he wasn't the ONLY reason Wladmir hesitated. Fury simply exploited a flaw that was already there. Wladmir already had some gunshy tendencies that were getting worse with age.

    You keep spinning this narrative that Wladmir had no trouble opening up for 99% of his career and then suddenly turned into crap for just one fight. Then within the very same post, you equate Wladmir's safety first style to being gunshy and insisting there were numerous fights where he hesitated and was gunshy. Do you not see the clear contradiction and confusion?

    Yeah, getting knocked on your ass seeing stars is usually the reason boxers become gunshy. It doesn't require a degree in psychology or analytics to see that.

    Again there's a difference between a cautious fighter and one who can't pull the trigger due to the trauma of taking many hard blows. Wladmir eventually pulled the trigger due to pressure from his coach which means he hadn't reached the stage of gunshy veteran, which is more of a mental health condition.

    It might have been a lack of interest/aloofness, overthinking, etc against Chambers.
     
  9. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    TBH i just watched highlights of the fight to refresh my memory, and i'm not seeing that Wladimir was gun shy at all. He walked forward throwing shots with mean intentions, i mean you've said yourself you believe Wladimir was more aggressive vs Joshua. So what does that tell you ? that clearly Fury's style was more problematic for Wladimir.

    I mean put it this way Fury is not known as a dangerous puncher where as Joshua is, so if Wladimir was going to be more cautious against anyone it would be Joshua because of his punching power.
     
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  10. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    No, it's not my opinion at all. There is no way the Wladmir of the Fury fight, throwing like what, 8-10 punches per round, would keep the rampaging buffalo Samuel Peter off of him. That version of Wladmir would not outpoint Haye or be able to control and take Povetkin. I would go as far to say you don't know **** about boxing if you think the Wladmir of the Fury fight would look just fine against his most difficult opponents from 5-10 years earlier. Again, this would be like saying the Holmes of the Spinks or Tyson matches would look the same against Shavers, Norton, Witherspoon, etc. It's too stupid for me to even respond to.

    And I know you and MM aren't stupid guys and that the two of you know plenty about boxing so I know you're either being willfully ignorant or trolling at this point.

    A large number of people saying something wrong isn't going to sway my view. If 9 people say the sky is green, the 10th person saying it's blue is still correct. I'm aware of the variables of Fury's erratic style, but that isn't the ONLY reason Wladmir looked like crap. Fury simply exploited something that was already there.

    I didn't think I'd have to mention Holmes. The absurd responses are what promoted the comparison.

    This doesn't really address my point at all.

    Both Holmes and Wladmir were pushing 40 and past the point where the average boxing champion would be shot or on the verge of being shot. Yes Wladmir was still beating contenders, but his era had become abysmal at this point with few impressive prospects. Not all contenders are equal. Arreola and Norton were both #1 contenders for the WBC belt and they're planets apart in terms of skill. Old Wladmir wasn't taking on a murderers row leading up to Fury looking sharp in his combinations and movement.

    I am using the eye test and simply comparing Wladmir to how he looked when younger. I'm not comparing him to other champions with vastly different styles such as Frazier. Yes results are important but context matters too. It's not enough to point out a champion beat a contender convincingly, but also how good that contender is and if the champion in question looks worse than he did before.
     
  11. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Exactly!

    Wlad was, to all intents and purposes, the aggressor; attempting to cut off the ring and capture Fury in his strike zone. But he has always been limited in what he can throw, whilst on the move, and the target has to be directly in front of him (and relatively static), in order for him to do so.

    Fury's movement meant that he could rarely be found in front and in range of Wlad. More often than not, it became a matter of Wlad closing the distance by simply marching into Fury's strike zone, which he did, seemingly unfazed

    But Wlad still tried and very occasionally succeeded to land both his right hand and his left hooks.

    None of this speaks to Wlad being a Gun-Shy fighter.


    And yet, against Joshua, Wlad gave one of the bravest performances seen in a heavyweight championship ring for a long time. (The irony is palpable.)
     
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  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Well we can compare resumes and to be fair Fury was beaten by John McDermott. Watch the fight on you tube and if you score it count me in, okay? Byrd and Fury fought the same man, but let''s not pretend Wlad close to the same fordable opponent.

    In therms of big wins Byrd has Holyfield, Oquendo, McCline, V Klitschko and David Tua. That towers over Fury. It not fair to suggest that Chisora is = Tua if that's what you are saying. Nor is it fair to refer to Ike the way you are as an un-proven contender. He beat both Byrd and Tua at their best. That proves something. Whyte biassed on his recent effort was um, rather John Sargetesuqe.
     
  13. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    You clearly don't know what gunshy means.
     
  14. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra H2H Burger King Full Member

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    Byrd's top 5

    -Vitali
    -Holyfield
    -Tua
    -Oquendo
    -Puritty

    Vitali:

    -Peter
    -Arreola
    -Sanders
    -Chisora
    -Adamek
     
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  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    To the poster who said this no, Wlad was not always a gun-shy boxer. Watch some of his fights and learn. You'll see. If you want to use an example that he was gun-shy at age 39, go ahead. It's silly to rate guys at that age. Being well in the lead is fights is not being -gun shy. Besides he knocked his man out in the fight you are referring too if you are talking about the Chambers match.
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2022