G reg PAGE OF 1982 vs. COONEY of 1983

Norton was a shell of what he'd been. He was also suspect against punchers even at his finest. Cobb was tough but he really wasn't much of a fighter. Guts and a great chin got him as far as he went.

This means nothing at all. Cooney was a puncher and when punchers win they usually win impressively particularly when matched against old men and hacks. Styles make fights. Look at Ken Norton, he was hell for boxers but not so much for punchers.

What you don't say is that more than three years had passed since Page beat Chaplin. In that time David Bey had stopped Chaplin in 4. The guy was 33+ by then and fading.

Here comes those sneaky ratings claims again. The WBC and WBA were quite frankly a disgrace at this time and most of the forum would know that. None of these excepting Norton (fringe) were true contenders. For heavens sake Ron Lyle had recently been stopped by the 10-4-0 Lynn Ball. Lets be serious.

How bad is it when one has to dig such guys up trying to big up Cooney?

He beat some to. The big thing is he showed beyond a shadow of a doubt he could beat live contenders. Cooney never showed this. If Cooney actually fought good fighters god only knows what his record would have been. How would one know? It's not like he showed anything in the ring against such boxers. Well he got stopped by the three best guys he ever faced so there's that. Sure he was a world beater ko'ing stiffs.

Hell he also showed he could come back after losses. What did Cooney do after losses? He run away and hid that's what.

That is an ordinary claim. Renaldo Snipes was a good mid level contender.

Truth be told he certainly has a better "W" column than Cooney ever achieved. His extremely impressive win over the in form Trevor Berbick (top 5) is a better win than Cooney ever put forth. He also lost an extremely close decision (did i read somewhere it might have went either way?) to Timmy Witherspoon right before Witherspoon fought Holmes.

Let's not forget his effort vs Holmes. He came far closer against Larry than Cooney did. That right hand looked for a short time like it may have taken him to the title. Holmes too much recuperation and heart however but damned if he didn't have to use all of it.

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Why the fixation with Hall of Famers? It means less than nothing. Spinks a light heavyweight who caught Holmes at the right time and Foreman over 40. It means nothing in a H2H match with Page. Again - Cooney never fought good contenders. No doubt the "L" column would have been a bit different if he did. Every time he stepped up he got knocked down.

Again, irrelevant. History is littered with this stuff and then when they go H2H BOOM!

Cooney and Page are totally different fighters. Unfortunately neither made good use of their not inconsiderable potential. Page needed to dedicate a lot more and get into consistently good condition. He also needed to go back to the basics and stop trying to imitate Ali. Cooney simply needed to fight and hone his skills against gradually better opposition. Neither come close to doing such.

 

Page had heaps of speed and power. His right hand was harder than Holmes' and Larry dropped Cooney in the early going before boxing. As he said, you have to get them drunk before you mug 'em.

Page's long snapping jab and right hand would be hell for Cooney who certainly didn't have much in the way of defense.

Page left Coetzee prone, dropped Evangelista with a single right hand while going backwards. His right hand left Tillis battered. None other than Ed Schuyler Jr said his quick snapping right hand vied with Coetzee's for the best in the division. Ed's in the HOF so i'm sure his opinion is of the utmost importance.

 

Good post.

Page was walking through Coetzee's right hands. Who else ever did that? And the fact the bout went over the 3 minute mark means nothing. Coetzee was done. Finished. If he goes back to his corner, he does not make it out of the 9th round. /he had nothing left.

Can you just imagine the hoopla if it was Page that was the guy ko'd by Mike Spinks? Cooney could not last much longer than Tangstad did. 5 rounds. And did Spinks even miss a punch in the 5th round?

Like yourself, I sure don't think Gerry fought live bodies. I think his best win over a live body was the Dino Dennis fight. But that's a guy willing to exchange and a guy that walks into everything. You don't have to go looking for him and that was a nice performance by Cooney.

Even after the Holmes loss, it was more of the same with 3rd tier opponents. all these guys around and all beatable and we get the Philip Brown stuff. Look at the other guys around back then.

To me, the only live opponents I'd really like Cooney's chances are against Weaver because he got hit by everyone and started slow. David Bey because he kept his hands at his kneecaps. Tillis because > Weaver his career went south.

But I think Gerry is 50-50 against the likes of Snipes. Bonecrusher Smith. Frank Bruno. Trevor Berbick.

He's an underdog--to me anyway--Page. Witherspoon. Dokes. Thomas. Coetzee. Holmes, in a rematch. Tubbs.

So basically, fighting 10 good fighters, I see 2 or 3 victories. And that is not subtracting for wear and tear.

 

It would be hell for Cooney because he knocked out Alfredo Evangelista and Quick Tillis?

Jesus.

Greg Page was a sucker for a left hook. Again, watch the Trevor Berbick LOSS again. Berbick couldn't miss Page with left hooks.

Greg Page was no Larry Holmes. Ever.

 

You say Cooney never fought anyone. I say Cooney fought FOUR Hall of Famers.

You say so what, it doesn't matter if someone beats Hall of Famers. (Probably because never managed to fight a single one?)

You say Cooney never beat any "live" contenders. I name a half-dozen ranked contenders he fought, and you say the ratings were a disgrace.

I said in matchups against common opponents, Cooney did much better, and you say so what, because Cooney was a bigger puncher.

Then you bizarrely brag about what a big puncher Page was, even though Page struggled with guys Cooney blew out.

You're wrong. Cooney fought top names. Cooney only lost to Hall of Famers. Cooney beat a Hall of Famer (who was coming off a win over a top 10 contender). Cooney beat top 10 contenders.

Those are all facts.

It weakens your argument if can't even acknowledge facts.

 

Greg Page was KOed by Mark Willis twice! Willis wasn't a better puncher than Spinks. Willis had nine freaking KOs in his career (two against Page). Willis wasn't ranked.

You guys are bashing contenders like Phil Brown and Eddie Gregg and ignoring Page getting wasted twice by people like Mark Wills?

Eddie Gregg was rated by both the WBC and the WBA when Cooney destroyed him. Where was Mark Wills rated when he destroyed Page a couple weeks later?

Michael Spinks was the WORLD Heavyweight champion when he beat Cooney in the summer of 1987. Where was Joe Bugner rated when Page lost to him that summer?

 

Dino Dennis?

 

Cooney's career was half as long as Page's. Still ...

Gerry Cooney against 10 good fighters:
* Larry Holmes (Hall of Famer - reigning world champ - loss)
* George Foreman (Hall of Famer - former and future world champ - loss)
* Ken Norton (Hall of Famer - former WBC champ - top 10 contender - win)
* Jimmy Young (Top 10 contender - win)
* Ron Lyle (Top 10 contender - win)
* Michael Spinks (Hall of Famer - reigning world champ - loss)
* Eddie "The Animal" Lopez (Top 10 contender - win)
* Eddie Gregg (Top 10 contender - win)
* Phil Brown (Top 10 contender - win)
* S.T. Gordon (future WBC cruiserweight champ - future top 10 heavyweight contender - win)

* Cooney 7 wins (6 kos), 3 (losses by KO)

Greg Page against 10 good fighters:
* Gerrie Coetzee (reigning WBA champ - win)
* Tim Witherspoon (future WBC champ - loss)
* Buster Douglas (future world champ - loss)
* Tony Tubbs (future WBA champ - loss)
* Trevor Berbick (future WBC champ - loss)
* Bonecrusher Smith (future WBA champ - win)
* Jimmy Young (top 10 contender - win)
* Orlin Norris (future cruiserweight champ - loss)
* Francesco Damiani (former WBO champ - loss)
* Joe Bugner (former contender a decade earlier - loss)

* Page 3 wins (1 KO), 7 losses

Enough of the nonsense that Cooney didn't fight quality fighters. Page never fought a Hall of Famer. And Page never "FACED" anyone as good as Holmes, Foreman or Norton.

 

I'm simply saying he had the power to belt out Cooney. Cooney was belted out by every front line prime fighter he faced.

Cooney was more hittable than Page. It's all dandy when fighting guys that don't fight back much but when the level of the opposition rises it gets much harder. Cooney would be a great target for Pages long fast right hand.

 

Lets stop the nonsense right there. Your blatant misuse of the disgrace that were the WBC and WBA ratings of the time is an insult to the forum.

Feel free to show how all these guys were top 10 rated by a respectable entity like The Ring.

Ron Lyle a top 10 contender after getting axed by Lynn Ball who sat at 10-4-0?!?!?!?! Sure thing. Ball had lost his previous two fights against guys that were 10-5-0 and 7-1-0.

Maybe Ball, Harry Terrell and Henry Porter were all in the top 10 as well ahead of Ron Lyle.

Philipp Brown. The most notable thing about him is 10 straight losses. That's some pretty good credentials right there.

Brown was used by Cooney as a sparring partner one time. Both Brown and Cooney lost count of how many times Cooney dropped him.

 

The reason Cooney got so many opportunities against hall of famers is that he was a name and was beatable. A good payday and a win for the opponent. It's the Frans Botha thing---they get lots of chances because the opposing manager gets his guy a win.

Same w/ Gerry. You want a win and nice payday---why did so many folks want to fight him? If he was such a destroyer or perceived threat, they'd stay clear and choose from the list of other beatable heavies around at the time.

 

It looks like the only guys they beat who were officially Ring rated at the time were Coetzee and Norton.

 

That isn't true. Cooney's team handpicked everyone he fought until Holmes. Spinks fought him for the money, but Cooney was favored to win.

Foreman did cherry pick him, but that's it.

 

He didn't beat any live contenders except arguably Norton. And Norton folded against big punchers.

Lyle: shot. Kod in 2 by Lynn Ball shortly before Cooley fought him.

Young: Had lost to Dokes and Ossie Occasio twice in the two years prior to facing Cooney. And, he got cut badly early. Otherwise he would have severely tested Cooney. As it was, he hit Cooney slot and was only stopped because of the cut

Phillip Brown: Did nothing before or after Cooney except decision a totally washed up Jimmy Young. Should not have been rated in the top 10 by anyone.

Eddie Gregg: Had faced one decent opponent- James Broad but was stopped. Should not have been rated in the top 10 by anyone.

George Chaplin: A smart, cutie top 20 type in his prime. But was past prime by the time he fought Cooney.

On the other hand

Greg Page:

Beat Snipes shortly after Snipes had beaten Trevor Berbick. Berbick was legit top 10 when Snipes beat him, and Snipes was legit top 10 when Page beat him. You said "Snipes was shite." Just by being a legitimate top 10 contender, he was better than anyone Cooney beat, at the time he fought them, save arguably Norton, who had a style tailor made for him, as well as being way past his best.

Page kod Coetzee a guy who was a reigning champion and took his vaunted right hand many times with no problem.

The sad truth is that after getting a shot at Holmes, that he didn't really earn apart from the hype and $ that came with being a white hope to gullible casuals, Cooney went MIA. Then, when he finally returned, his team matched him just as carefully as in his formative years before getting a shot at Spinks that he didn't deserve. Then he got the payday with Foreman that he did nothing to deserve.

Meanwhile Page got back on his horse, after his first loss, to Berbick. A few months later he kod a still dangerous Tillis, then beat Snipes, the guy who had beaten the guy who beat him. Then, he was unjustly denied a shot at Holmes, when Holmes was declining, and he was peaking. He lost a decision to Witherspoon, but Tim was a quality top condender who had come very close to beating Holmes. The close decision loss to David Bey was a bad stain, but he rebounded to KO Coetzee months later. And Coetzee was the guy Holmes had wanted to fight in justifying his decision to abandon his WBC title. And by beating Coetzee Page legigitimized himself at the same time Holmes looked bad because he had given up his title rather then face Page, then was handed the IBF title and didn't get the fight with the guy Page beat. Now that I think about it, Page v Holmes in early 85 would have been a good match-up but Greg was forced to fight a prime Tony Tubs, who was better than anyone Holmes faced as IBF champ except arguably Spinks.

 

I'd have to go with Page, here.

I think pre-Holmes Cooney gives Page a tough-ish fight, in a losing effort.

Post-Holmes Cooney (i.e. had he fought in '83 or any time after Holmes) gets beaten pretty badly.

'82 Page was still a major threat, with potential to unleash. Despite his loss to Berbick in the middle of that year, Page closed it out with what I thought was a very impressive stoppage of Tillis.

Cooney isn't beating that Page.