He would have received way more opportunities if he was WHITE What do you think Cooney's real appeal was? He had two big things going for him, he was extremely powerful and white.
He was kept in cotton wool to ensure he would make it to the huge money with Holmes with no chance of a hiccup. This is carved in stone.
I agree Williams turned out to be much tougher than expected. But, it was seen as a cherry pick before the fight as Williams' only decent opponent, James Tillis, had dropped him twice and exposed his lack of chin. Prime Holmes would not have had to go the distance with the fragile chinned Williams. Holmes was clearly sliding. I think Page would have tested the Williams chin. I also think Tony Tubbs was better all around then Williams. Better defense and fuller arsenal of punches. Williams did have great reach and a great jab and decent movement. Th at was enough to greatly trouble a version of Holmes who was slowing down.
Good points. I'd have to agree with all of that and Tubbs wasn't exactly making easy work of Page, either.
Good Lord. More nonsense. How many title shots did Cooney get? TWO. How many did Page get? TWO. And Page got offered far more. And both were offered shots at Mike Weaver. Cooney was blocked. Page declined. Gerry Cooney was supposed to fight Mike Weaver before Holmes, but the WBA blocked it and insisted Weaver fight the lower-ranked Tillis instead. They BLOCKED the "WHITE" guy who had beaten Young, Lyle and Norton and was ranked #1, to give a title shot to Tillis, who was ranked lower. Who did Tillis beat to warrrant a shot ahead of Cooney? Tom Fischer? And if Weaver refused to fight Tillis, the WBA was going to give Page a vacant title shot against Tillis. Who had Page beaten at that point? Page was coming off a 12-round split decision over George Chaplin. Cooney was rated the number #1 contender by the WBC and WBA and RING, and the WBA was going to strip Weaver if Weaver fought him. That doesn't sound like giving the "white guy" preferential treatment. Does it? https://www.nytimes.com/1981/06/25/sports/weaver-appears-about-to-lose-title.html After Weaver beat Tillis, Page was offered a WBA title shot against Weaver. But Page asked the WBA to drop him lower in their ratings because he wasn't "ready" for a title shot. Page was in line to fight the winner of Holmes-Cooney for the WBC belt and was featured on the undercard, AND PAGE LOST to Berbick. Page was given a vacant WBC title shot against Witherspoon, was favored and LOST. Page was immediately given a top rating by the WBA and was in line to fight Coetzee, but PAGE LOST to Bey. And then Bey wouldn't go to South Africa, so THEy GAVE THE SHOT TO PAGE - who had lost. How the hell was Cooney given preferential treatment because he was white? Page was getting title shots whether he won the eliminators or lost them. If the tables were turned: * If Cooney struggled to outpoint George Chaplin twice and went the distance with Jimmy Young * If COONEY was offered a title fight with Weaver and turned it down. * If Cooney had been upset by Berbick. * If Cooney had lost a vacant title UPSET to Spoon * If Cooney had been upset by David Bey. * And Cooney was still given a title shot after he lost to Bey, * And then Cooney lost to Tubbs * And Cooney lost to Buster Douglas * And Cooney was knocked out by Mark Wills twice * And then Cooney was outboxed by freaking JOE BUGNER ... And, meanwhile, * If Greg Page had torn apart Jimmy Young and stopped him (two years before Cooney went the distance with him) * And Greg Page had knocked out George Chaplin in two (when Cooney struggled with him twice) * And Greg Page had knocked out Ron Lyle in one round * And Greg Page had knocked out Ken Norton in one round * And the #1 rated Greg Page signed to fight Mike Weaver but the fight was blocked in favor OF A LOWER RATED WHITE CONTENDER * And Greg Page had fought Larry Holmes for the world title and came up short * And Greg Page came back (around the same time Cooney had been KOed by a journeyman Mark Wills) and PAGE knocked out the WBA #3 contender Eddie Gregg * And Greg Page fought Michael Spinks for the world title and later George Foreman * And Page had ONLY lost 3 TIMES ... ALL to Hall of Famers ... Page would be in the freaking Hall of Fame, himself. Enough of this racist garbage.
Exactly. Page couldn't get past guys like David Bey or Trevor Berbick because he ate left hooks all night, and he's supposed to get past Cooney, who towered over him and threw the meanest left hook in the game.
Here's the text if you can't read the link above. So much for the "WHITE guy" getting preferential treatment. WEAVER APPEARS ABOUT TO LOSE TITLE By MICHAEL KATZ and SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES The World Boxing Association, by a 16-0 vote of its executive committee today, in effect stripped Mike Weaver of his heavyweight title for not fighting the third-ranked contender, James (Quick) Tillis, but instead signing to meet the top-ranked challenger, Gerry Cooney. The W.B.A. board gave promoters until July 15 to bid on a Weaver-Tillis fight, and Weaver 10 more days to sign for it. But Don Manuel, Weaver's manager, said the W.B.A. action today would lead to a withdrawal of title recognition for Weaver because he would go ahead with the Cooney fight. This could result in three heavyweight champions. The World Boxing Council, the other established sanctioning body, recognizes Larry Holmes. The Weaver-Cooney fight, which will take place in late October at a site to be determined, could gain recognition by some state athletic commissions. And the W.B.A. would sanction a fight between Tillis and fourth-ranked Greg Page for its vacant crown. Leon Spinks was ranked No. 2 by the W.B.A., but will drop in the rankings following his third-round knockout by Holmes 12 days ago. Today's regularly scheduled meeting was Weaver's last chance within the W.B.A. Manuel appeared before the executive committee to appeal the verdict of a special fact-finding board of the organization's championship committee. That board, meeting in Philadelphia May 29, turned down a request to sanction the Cooney fight and ruled the next day that Weaver had to sign to meet Tillis by June 30 and that the match had to take place by Sept. 30. All four members from the United States on the Latin American and South African-dominated executive committee of the W.B.A. voted today to reject the appeal. They were Bob Lee, a New Jersey commissioner who was accused by Dennis Rappaport, one of Cooney's co-managers, of ''running for the W.B.A. presidency;'' Hiawatha Knight of Michigan, Mel Ziegler of Florida and Nick Kerrasiotis of Illinois. Ed Franklin, Manuel's attorney, said that he might sue the W.B.A. in Federal court. And Rappaport said from his New York home tonight that he too intended to sue the W.B.A. Meeting Called a 'Charade' ''I refused to go to Houston to be part of a charade,'' said Rappaport. ''This is the first time in history that a fighter has been stripped for fighting the No. 1 challenger. The W.B.A. has said in effect, let the public be damned. I and Gerry Cooney say let the W.B.A. be damned. The W.B.A. and Quick Tillis: Let their epitaph read, 'Rest in Peace.' '' ''It was cut and dried before we came here,'' said Manuel. ''There was no way we were going to win. I still think I'm right with the Cooney fight.'' The W.B.A. ruled that Tillis was the ''leading available contender'' when the one-year period under which Weaver had to make a mandatory defense expired last March 31, a year after he won the title with a 15th-round knockout of John Tate. Cooney had signed March 2 to fight Ken Norton on May 11, and Spinks had signed to meet Holmes. When Manuel was questioned by Michael Mortimer of South Africa about whether he realized that on March 31, 1981, Tillis, and not Cooney, was the leading available contender, Manuel replied that he did. But after a recess, Manuel pointed out that when Weaver made his only title defense, last Oct. 25, he was then meeting the ''leading available contender,'' Gerrie Coetzee of South Africa, and thereby fulfilling the W.B.A. condition. Coetzee, knocked out by Weaver, was ranked No. 2 at the time, and Cooney, who has been No. 1 for 15 months, was busy with Ron Lyle, whom he knocked out Oct. 24. ''But that was an optional defense,'' said Rodrigo Sanchez of Panama, the W.B.A. president. ''Coetzee wasn't No. 1. When you're not fighting the No. 1, you're not fighting a mandatory.'' Manuel was never able to get that apparent inconsistency explained. Rappaport questioned some other apparent inconsistencies of W.B.A. rulings. He pointed out that, for example, Ayub Kalule, who is defending his W.B.A. junior middleweight title here tomorrow night against Sugar Ray Leonard, was the ''leading available contender'' for 22 months before he finally got a title shot. Rappaport pointed out that in four years as the W.B.A. junior lightweight champion, Sammy Serrano of Puerto Rico made only two mandatory defenses, and that Pipino Cuevas did not make any mandatory defenses of his W.B.A. welterweight title for four years until he was knocked out by Thomas Hearns last Aug. 2. Stripping of titles is not unusual in boxing. In 1978, when Spinks won the unified heavyweight title from Muhammad Ali, he lost W.B.C. recognition for giving Ali a return match instead of fighting Ken Norton, the No. 1 contender. The W.B.A., however, continued to recognize Spinks. The W.B.A. did strip Ali in 1965, when he gave Sonny Liston a return bout, and Ernie Terrell was given that body's recognition. ''What happened in the past is irrelevant,'' said Jim Kaulentis, who manages Tillis and who saw today's vote as an indication the W.B.A. was going to get tough on its rules. Tillis is a 23-year-old boxer, rather than puncher, who has a 20-0 record but has had to struggle to beat journeymen like Walter Santemore, Mike Koranicki and Tom (Roughhouse) Fisher. Kaulentis said Sam Glass, who is promoting the Weaver-Cooney fight, offered Tillis a $250,000 deal to step aside. ''Besides that, we could have had $150,000 to fight an opponent of our choosing on the undercard,'' said Kaulentis. The rest of the deal, Kaulentis said, was that Tillis would then fight the Weaver-Cooney winner, getting $250,000 against a percentage if it were Weaver and $500,000 against a percentage if it were Cooney. ''But Tillis turned it down himself,'' said Kaulentis. ''He just wants the title.''
Nice dissertation on the shenanigans around the WBA Title. One caveat: Nobody cared about it. Holmes was seen as THE HW champ. You seem to be positing that Cooney was screwed over and suffered by not getting a shot at Weaver. Actually, he got a much, much bigger purse and tons of attention landing The Holmes fight, without having to risk fighting Weaver or anyone else after the blow out of the washed up Norton. The hype for a Holmes/Cooney superfight was set well before any talk of a potential Weaver/Cooney fight. SI put Cooney on the cover after he kod Norton with the Headline: "Gerry Cooney: Lethal, awesome, ready." Trust me, they didn't mean ready for Mike Weaver. They meant Holmes. Cooney had the Holmes fight sewn up and it would have been dumb if Rappaport and Jones took a Weaver fight, even if it was offered. I suspect Weaver wanted it because Cooney could bring the $. LOL to your accusations of us being racist towards Cooney. I am a white Trump voter. But, I know a Great White Hope was a thing in the HW division, and Cooney was one. He got a superfight with Holmes for beucoup $$ without having to do anything but beat a few big names who were way past their best. And after the Holmes loss, he never beat a legitimate top 10 contender yet got huge paydays against Michael Spinks and George Foreman. Why did he get those fights? Because he was a great white hope.
I pointed out the situation with the WBA because John Thomas brought race into it, alluding that Cooney was getting preferential treatment. When, in fact, Cooney (who was the unanimous #1 contender by RING, the WBA and the WBC) was BLOCKED from a title fight by a panel led by Bob Lee (whose history of corruption is well-documented.) http://articles.latimes.com/2000/aug/18/sports/sp-6475 Second, Cooney-Weaver for the WBA title was SIGNED in 1981, well before any Holmes-Cooney talks had taken place. The WBA just blocked the fight and threatened to strip Weaver if Weaver went through with the fight (see my post above) and Weaver ended up bowing to the WBA and fighting Tillis instead. My point was also that FAR from receiving preferential treatment for being "WHITE," Cooney was blocked from a title fight by Bob Lee in favor of Tillis. Had Page been blocked from a signed title fight by white sanctioning body board members, and the board demanded Page lose his shot to a white fighter ranked lower than him, people would've been screaming racism favoring the white guy. Somehow, when black board members demand a black champ fight a lower ranked black challenger over the white top contender ... John Thomas thinks the WHITE guy is getting preferential treatment. (It's beyond dumb.) Regarding the SI cover, I don't know what your point is. Mike Tyson got put on the cover of Sports Illustrated a year after he turned pro and the week before his fight with DAVE JACO. https://i.pinimg.com/736x/37/b7/5a/37b75a4fc0f2cddf59e883bb8de338ff.jpg Boxing fans like KO punchers. Cooney was a KO artist. Tyson was a KO artist. Both were from New York, the media capital in the U.S. And SI liked to hype heavyweights and punchers. Even Marvis Frazier made the cover of Sports Illustrated after only four pro wins with his dad.
This is the best you've got? Really? One isolated little incident where the WBA actually stood by their own rule?
Page got title shots because he was active. Hard to get title shots when you lose a fight then disappear. Speaking of deserving Cooney did nothing to deserve that shot vs Spinks. Why did he get it? Because he was a big money fight and part of this involved being white and a big puncher. He was extremely marketable. It doesn't take many brain cells to realize this. Weaver fighting Cooney was in violation of the WBA rules. It was enforced. Page asked them to drop him down from top spot as he didn't believe he was ready. Instead of being molly coddled until a title shot was offered he chose to fight contenders in an effort to advance himself. Far more? Please. Tillis was their leading available contender when Weaver's 12 months were up. It was their own rule and they rejected the appeal. Nothing wrong with finally standing behind your own rules even if they were somewhat absurd. Well this is one of the organizations whose ratings you have been thrusting forth with gay abandon in an effort to make it look like Cooney was fighting top 10 fighters! Ironic much???? Yes their (and the WBC) ratings were a farce which you made abundantly clear when you tried to put forward Lyle, Lopez, Gregg, Brown etc etc etc as genuine contenders. Quite cunning tho. There's those ratings again that you gleefully respected when it favored your pro Cooney angle. You know the technicality, you put it forward yourself. There wasn't preferential treatment in any direction. They finally decided to back their own silly rules. I'm not sure he was actually "offered" the shot, he might have been asking to be dropped down prior to the inevitable offer. But yes he asked to drop down. Nothing wrong with learning your craft and trying to earn something. Page was in line to fight Holmes when he beat Renaldo Snipes in an eliminator (Holmes - Witherspoon/Weaver - Dokes undercard) to fight Holmes. Holmes initially signed then reneged and was stripped of the title. Page was given the chance to fight for the title as he was the number #1 contender and Holmes had declined to fight him. He was the first in line. It was said Don King pulled some strings to get Page that shot based on the fact he was told Page had the best chance of anyone in his stable of beating Coetzee. King wanted to control that title. That was circumstance. Page - Bey was very close. If Cooney was active he would have got any amount of title shots. Larry Holmes wanted him to fight someone very late in his reign so he could rematch him again!!!!! Cooney was where the money was!! Big, white and powerful. Why do you think Weaver and co. tried everything they could to fight him!!!!! One sided and agenda driven. Drama queen much????? It's obvious Cooney being white was a big part of why he was able to command such money and interest. He was also a nice story and had massive power in his left hook. He was brilliantly maneuvered. This is why the bout was worth $10m to both combatants and why Cooney garnered such a nice share comparative to Holmes who was actually the champion. Don King actually promoted the fight as white vs black at times. Time magazine put Cooney on its cover with Sylvester Stallone, whose Rocky III was just hitting cinemas. Sports Illustrated also led with Cooney on the cover, relegating Holmes to the inside flap. The race card was blatantly played by Don King, but Holmes couldn't resist pointing out how race had propelled Cooney's rise. He called Cooney the Great White Hoax. "If the man was black, he wouldn't be nowhere. You know it, I know it. Everybody knows it." Another tidbit - ''I haven't seen Cooney's punching power against a real contender,'' said Futch. ''I'm not going to rate him on a Norton, who was washed up, or a Ron Lyle, who was knocked out just before by Lynn Ball. I don't think Cooney hits as hard as Earnie Shavers.''
Cooney got the title shot at Spinks because he knocked out Eddie Gregg, who was rated in the top 10 by the sanctioning bodies. That's how you get title shots. By knocking out ranked fighters in a matter of seconds.
Weaver fighting Cooney was NOT in violation of the WBA rules. That's why it was a big deal. Cooney was rated #1 by the WBA when Cooney beat Lyle and Weaver beat Coetzee. Then Cooney signed to fight Norton, knocked him out, and then Cooney and Weaver signed to fight for the WBA title. But Bob Lee (who was corrupt) got the board to say Tillis was the leading "available" contender in March (a year after Weaver won the title) because Cooney and signed to fight Norton in May. The corruption came because Cooney was the #1 contender when Weaver beat Coetzee (who was #2) and Cooney was still the #1 contender when Weaver was forced to fight Tillis (#3) or be stripped. And nobody told Weaver in March he had to fight Tillis. They wanted until he signed to fight Cooney to block that fight with the #1 contender. Then Weaver offered Page a title fight after the Tillis fight, because by then Cooney and Holmes was in the works. And Page turned it down. Page was offered a title fight with Weaver and passed (one title shot there). Page was also promised a title shot if he beat Berbick and lost there. That makes FOUR title shots if you include the other two he received. (Twice as many as Cooney.)
Don King DID control that title, Einstein. He promoted Coetzee. And "do you think" Don King pulled strings, considering Page LOST to 13-fight pro David Bey the fight before that? You badmouth Cooney for wasting a top contender in one round to get a title shot with Spinks. And Page LOSES a fight to a 13-fight pro ... and STILL gets a title shot ... and you have ZERO problems with that. That shows how ridiculously biased you are. If Page had knocjked out a guy rated as high as #3 by the WBA in one round to get a title shot, and Gerry Cooney had LOST his previous fight to a 13-fight pro and STILL got a title shot, you'd be screaming RACISM all over the place. You've been exposed as a complete clown in this thread.
