Gans-McGovern-Did any scribes think it was a real ko?

on film that knock down looked as real as any other to me...my home town is the birthplace of McGovern...but he didnt grow up here....

 

I for one don't put much into it. Far too shady for me. Gans was going down from pretty much every punch that even came close to landing. If it indeed was legit than it just speaks volumes about what a force McGovern was during that period.

 

If this fight was on the level (a big if), then it must rank among the greatest wins of all time.

A natural bantemweight destroying arguably the best lightweight of all time.

 

I thought it looked legit.

It looked like McGovern simply overwhelmed Gans with his non stop whirlwind attack.I know Gans won a lot more fights after this but it seemed his old fashioned low guard,one punch at a time style got badly found out by McGovern's more punching less clinching style on this occasion.

For the quality of the footage it still looks like McGovern was landing a lot of hard,flush shots and Gan's looked to be genuinely dazed at the end of round 1.Actually to me McGovern looks more impressive on film than a lot of better known boxing pioneers going by this fight.

Plus the obvious question is if Gan's was throwing the fight why bother to keep getting off the floor after 4-5 knockdowns?

 

It wasn't just the fact that the fight "looked" fake that made it so controversial, but there was evidence uncovered immediately afterward that Gans had agreed to take a dive, and the result was that boxing was officially banned in Chicago for some time afterward. It was an enormous controversy in its day, right on par with the second Ali-Liston or LaMotta-Fox fights.

 

There is circumstantial evidence outside the ring for a fix.

 

Care to elaborate?

I'm starting to have second thoughts myself now.I just watched some much better,clearer footage of Gans beating Kid Herman and he looked fantastic here.Fast,elusive and skillful. He didn't bare much resemblence to the guy getting beaten up by McGovern.:huh

 

It seems from some newspaper reports that an irregular betting pattern emerged before the fight. The black community, who usualy bet heavily on Gans kept their money in their pockets, and dark rumours circulated before the fight.

Gans made certain claims later in life that you might accept or reject.

Conclusion?

Has to be regarded as uncertain either way.

 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ML5WLvrc0P8&feature=PlayList&p=12CE1D994D91E94F&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=49[/ame]

What, this?

I just don't get it with Gans. His career speaks for itself but I just don't see the fascination with him (styles wise, of course I believe him to be a top 20 ATG)

 

I meant compared to the standard of the day.

He showed good footwork (particularly when he manouvered Herman into the ropes prior to the KO) and he was good at picking punches off in mid air.Also he slipped and countered very nicely for the stoppage.

There was still a lot of clinching but watch virtually any pre 1920 fight and they clinched and mauled heaps.Gans looked quite good here though as opposed to say Jack Johnson from the same era who I find awful to watch.

Another golden oldie that looked pretty good for his time was Owen Moran who's stoppage of Battling Nelson was impressive.

 

BOLD: True.

LINED: Thanks, is it on youtube?

 

Yep.

Morans the shorter fella.When I watched it for some reason I assumed Nelson was the little bloke kicking arse until I checked Boxrec and found the opposite to be true.

 

This was reported in Chicago newspapers on December 15, 1900:

"Chicago's sporting fraternity is now convinced that the Gans-McGovern fight was one of the greatest fakes ever pulled off in this city. In connection with it William H. Arthur, Assistant Corporation Attorney, made public the following today:

'Last Tuesday, a man came to my office with $8,000 in greenbacks, which he offered to wager at 8 to 5 on McGovern. He was a colored gambler, and we questioned him. Finally he said there was an agreement out that Gans was to quit before the fifth round. He said he had seen it in writing before he would risk a cent.' "


This is from the NY Times' obituary for McGovern, February 23, 1918:

"McGovern was credited with a two-round knockout over Joe Gans in Chicago on Dec. 13, 1900, but it was afterward proved that Gans deliberately faked the bout and lay down to his white opponent. It was one of the most scandalous cases in the history of the ring. Boxing in Chicago was forbidden after that fight, and the ban never was lifted."

 

The Chicago Tribune's headline the day after the fight declared, "McGOVERN WINS A 'FAKE' FIGHT."