Gavilan With Some Entertaining Footwork

I dont know much about Duran these days actually sorry acb.

Definitely keep me posted if you get a chance to interview him though, i would luv to hear about that.

At ww, i would have to say Gavilan at his very best, as he did have some off-nights, but even greats like him are allowed that in such an era where they fought so often. I did take Montreal Duran over him on the other thread (as you know), but thats so 50/50 imo. Obviously there's Robinson, and i could possibly have Leonard, i think Gavilan's extra sharpness and chin might see him through against Hearns, close though. Maybe Armstrong would be too relentless? Who knows, when we're talking Gavilan, we're talking an absolute top-tier ww, he beat a 147-version of Basilio and pushed Robimnson twice, speaks volumes of the man. Him against Trinidad (who gets vastly underrated here) would be very interesting, and a great fight

 

Last I remember reading Duran was doing some sort of musical tour to promote a CD or something that he did.

As for Gavilan, I don't know how he'd do against the top welters of all time...but I know he'd never be outclassed and he'd give all of them a run for their money. The cuban hawk was really ahead of his time with how unorthodox and at times over the top he was as a fighter. He threw punches from many angles with precision and relentlessness. Because of his lack of KO power, some of his fights were absolutely brutal to watch especially when it became obvious that Gavilan was taking over. Some of the worst sustained beatings I've seen.

 

:rofl :rofl :rofl

 

Emile Griffith vs Benny Paret I
Emile Griffith vs Jorge Fernandez
Kid Gavilan vs Ben Buker
Kid Gavilan vs Carmen Basilio
Kid Gavilan vs Tony Janiro II
Jose Napoles vs Curtis Cokes I
Jose Napoles vs Al Urbina II
Jose Napoles vs Ernie Lopez II
Roberto Duran vs Benny Huertas
Duilio Loi vs Ray Famechon
Fighting Harada vs Katsutoshi Aoki
Vicente Saldivar vs Sugar Ramos
Willie Pep vs Gil Cadilli
Willie Pep vs Ray Famechon
Willie Pep vs Ralph Walton
Willie Pep vs Fabela Chavez
Jung Koo Chang vs German Torres I
Jung Koo Chang vs Hilario Zapata II
Jung Koo Chang vs Alfonso Lopez
Gilberto Roman vs Jiro Watanabe
Gilberto Roman vs Santos Laciar I
Santos Laciar vs Hee Sup Chin
Miguel Canto vs Betulio Gonzalez II
Miguel Canto vs Antonio Avelar
James Toney vs Iran Barkley
Sugar Ray Leonard vs Marvin Hagler
Ricardo Lopez vs Rosendo Alvarez II

 

You'll be occupied for a good bit there, and it will be great! I need to get studying some Canto footage, gunna contact him soon

 

You're fast becoming one of the biggest ******s on this site. We have enough of you as it is, so either sign out or stop trolling. None of what you say has any base. I proved this last time I argued with you when you(like a complete moron) compared Baldomir to LaMotta in terms of ACCOMPLISHMENTS, and then when I completely disproved you you shut the hell up and went away. Please do that now.

 

You're such a simple-minded moron that you don't realize you're doing the exact opposite of this. Nobody said all old timers were better than modern fighters, we're saying a great fighter like Gavilan would beat up a class like today's current WW's. You're the one who's saying(for absolutely no reason, other than you're one of the idiots who disregards footage and talks up training techniques and boxing evolution) that no classic fighters would have a shot at any of the top guys today. You're the one who's mind is made up and unwilling to change, despite the fact that you clearly haven't done the research and your overall boxing knowledge is about at the level of a 5 year olds.

 

It's been ages since I saw a Canto fight on film. Should really be a great next few weeks with this footage.

I'm going to have to buy some past Detroit fighters too; Milton McCrory, Hilmer Kenty, Tyrone Trice, Jimmy Paul, Caveman Lee.

 

Do you know what the word "comparison" actually means?

Both were undisputed fighters in their weight classes.

That is an easily made comparison.

Both beat the man to become the man at their weight class.

That is an easily made comparison.

How about you stop being so defensive and so willing to attempt personal insults, which only goes to prove to me that you're emotionally involved in your fighters, rather than taking a truely objectional viewpoint, cause to be honest, nothing you say really matters to me, unlike someone like ACB or Brooklyn who don't need to resort to petty bull**** (ACB was on the road, but turned back) - you come across as some over righteous child who got his parents internet connection going in the basement.

I stated reasons that Gavilan would have a tough time in the WW division of today, for his time he was a very tall fighter in that division, now-a-days, he's about right. He was never a big puncher and never truely was a KO merchant, I don't see a guy like Margarito having issues walking him down and tiring him out.

Lets face facts here, you believe footage shows you everything, I believe it shows nothing, I can point back to some of the famed old Joe Louis fights and show that his boxing technique is nothing compared to some of the guys today, but you won't buy it, because you're too far up his ass on what he achieved in a time period that didn't have the athletes it has today.

 

I never knew about that

 

Compare their accomplishments and tell me they're not similar

-Fighters who lost 1 in 4 fights.

-Fighters who were undisputed in their division, despite amassing multiple losses before becoming champions.

-Fighters who beat the respective champs of their divisions, Baldomir at a time when Judah was being talked up as the only guy capable of beating Floyd.

-Fighters who were notoriously hard to knock down/out but notoriously easy to outbox for the very elite fighters.

-Sugar Ray Robinson had an off night the night he lost to LaMotta, as he would prove 5 out of 6 times against LaMotta, Baldomir however beat Judah on a night where Judah was performing for the first 4-6 rounds.

-Both fighters who were never really KO fighters, they both punched hard and could stagger opponents but both had KO percentages less than 30% in their fights.

Yeah, you're completely right, I can't compare these two accomplishment wise at all, there is absolutely nothing to compare in their achievements at all!

 

I wont do the Sweet Pea thing and be derogatory (kidding Pea!) towards you here, but its not right to compare them man. I think you're just looking at the face-value of their resumes and seeing that they both were not the outstanding practicioners of their respective eras but still were 'the man' at some point.

There's more to it, and let me just say that, styles shouldnt come into it when we're talking accomplishments, which was what i reacted to, not the comparisons of the respective styles of each.

The thing you missed out was that LaMotta was somewhat of an uncrowned champ for years in one of the division's most toughest eras.

And also, in that era, when huys fought so often, you should know that they are forgiven legacy-wise for odd losses more than today's fighter is, this is justifiable, ever heard of Archie Moore?

This is also the reason why Robinson is p4p 1, fighting that often against that calibre of opponent and losing only once in his prime, against a bigger guy who he beat 4 times and then moved up in weight before doing it again when past his best weight

 

Two things, because I really can't be bothered arguing more than this.

1. Being undisputed today is much harder than it was in yesteryear, this doesn't even take into account that fighters may be tougher today, forget that, this takes into account the politics of trying to get three to four belt organisations to allow one fighter to hold all of them.

2. In an era where guys were fighting guys seven to eight times, most of the time spending their time fighting tomato cans and when the average boxer of that day were semi-professional (even World Champs like Cinderella Man) and couldn't spend their entire day training, losses came aplenty - which is what set Marciano apart, yet, now-a-days, even with few fighters managing to hold onto their 0's at the top echelon (Only really Calzaghe and Floyd have done this for any number of years in championship fighting recently) - we don't consider this as big of an achievement anymore, Why?

This isn't even going into styles or ability of Baldomir vs LaMotta (personally think Baldomir wins the fight based on footage I've seen of LaMotta and Baldomir - but this is hearsay)

This is going into ACCOMPLISHMENTS.

Do you know what an accomplishment is?

 

Oh no, you should post this **** on the classic and i wont even have to say this because a lot of others will do it for me. No wonder Pea was so annoyed with you. You think today's crop are TOUGHER than then???????????

The very fact that you have mentioned alphabet titles and 'undisputed' champions just makes me wanna stop this debate now. Winning the TITLE is the same as ever, you beat the LINEAL champ, and thats that. And then, it still doesnt mean as much to your resume and legacy as fighting every1 and beating them without winning the title would, you have heard of 2 light-heavys called Ezzard Charles and Gene Tunney right.

And anyway, we were on the subject of ACCOMPLISHMENTS? Like i said, the man was uncrowned champ for years, that kills this debate.

What more can a boxer accomplish than beat the best? Even if you would NEVER get a title shot, which very nearly became a reallity for Jake