Gene Tunney: Is he a top 10 ATG heavyweight?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by JAB5239, May 21, 2011.


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  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Tunney might well beat some top 10 all time heavyweights, but his heavyweight resume is too thin to be ranked among them.
     
    janitor, May 22, 2011
    janitor, May 22, 2011
    #46
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Hey, if you don't dismiss Tunney's wins over Greb as irrelevant to his heavyweight ranking, then my point isn't addressed to you.

    However, what's the difference between "2nd most qualified" and "no.2 contender" ?
    Or are you saying Greb was merely the 2nd most qualified of all the fighters Dempsey didn't fight ?



    Point taken. :good


    Yes, maybe.
    But I think there are others who often assume Sharkey was a largely inferior fighter to Wills (and others), for example. In spite of his win, and other work.

    ... yes, and if you don't fight the top contenders, the credit for beating them should go to whoever does. That's all I meant really.


    Well, the good thing about the internet is that there are a multitude of perceptions and opinions, and I hope it stays that way.

    :good
     
    Unforgiven, May 22, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 22, 2011
    #47
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm saying that he's the second most qualified of the fighters that Dempsey didn't fight and that he was a fighter with a really good chance of beating Dempsey. But I don't know that he ever did enough to be regarded as Dempsey's #1 or #2 contender.

    So, Brennan was likely "ranked higher" in an overall sense when he fought Greb and even after, but Greb was more likely to beat Dempsey than Brennan (by Brennan's own admission).

    In the same way as Burley was the fighter most likely to beat Robinson for a long period of time, but never became his #1 contender.
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2011
    McGrain, May 22, 2011
    #48
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Gotcha. :good
     
    Unforgiven, May 22, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 22, 2011
    #49
  5. Boilermaker

    Boilermaker Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well I dont get it.

    If Brennan was the number 1 contender, does this mean that you think that he should have been the one that got the title shot before Greb, because he did more? (and be default you think it strengthens his reign)

    Or are you saying that Dempsey should have forgotten about the fighter everyone else thought was the best in the world (no 1 contender) and fought the fighter most likely to beat him, Greb, but duck Brennan?

    :?
     
    Boilermaker, May 22, 2011
    Boilermaker, May 22, 2011
    #50
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Well that's hardly clear cut, which is probably why you're confused by what I wrote.

    On the one hand, if money is available to fight Brennan and Dempsey makes that fight and the general opinion is he is slightly more qualified based upon his size, you can't criticise the fighter in question for that, at all.

    On the other hand, does it "strengthen his reign" because he fought him instead of a fighter that a) beat him handily and b) was likely the greatest in history? I don't think so, though there are those who will say otherwise (based on the fact he would have been attacked for "beating a middleweight).

    The point is a little moot though. At the end of the day, Dempsey had a **** load of do-nothing years when he could have matched Greb. He doesn't have to match him instead of somebody (though in my opinion he could have matched him instead of almost anyone).
     
    McGrain, May 22, 2011
    McGrain, May 22, 2011
    #51
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace

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    I can't think of any reasonable criteria placing him inside the top ten.

    I have him between 20-25
     
    lufcrazy, May 22, 2011
    lufcrazy, May 22, 2011
    #52
  8. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    my thoughts exactly
     
    Bummy Davis, May 22, 2011
    Bummy Davis, May 22, 2011
    #53
  9. MRBILL

    MRBILL Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    LOOK! Tunney's skills are respected... We all know he could box..... Skillwise as a boxer, he may well crack the top-10 today in 2011.... BUT!! I can still name 10 guys from post--'60 who probably would park his ass like a Cadillac, and with with owning less skills, but enormous size and strength over Eugene... WORD!!
    :deal:bbb

    SR.BILL:hat
     
    MRBILL, May 22, 2011
    MRBILL, May 22, 2011
    #54
  10. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    This is why I say it's the inactivity that hurts Dempsey's reign/legacy the most, not the specific "ducks" or the choice of opponents.
    Rematches with Brennan, Gibbons and Firpo even would have gone a long way to heal any harm his failure to fight Harry and Harry might do to him.
    In my humble opinion.
     
    Unforgiven, May 23, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 23, 2011
    #55
  11. JAB5239

    JAB5239 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    A Firpo rematch does nothing in my opinion. Brennen and Gibbons rematches may have helped considering the trouble they gave him, but it still wouldn't replace a fight with the guy who mastered both of them or the man rated at the top. The inactivity hurts. Not fighting those two guys hurts more in my opinion. At least he could have said he fought the best AVAILABLE fighters.
     
    JAB5239, May 23, 2011
    JAB5239, May 23, 2011
    #56
  12. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Well, many said Firpo was robbed or Dempsey had too tough a time with him.
    Also, Firpo was rolled out as a big opponent for Wills (some thought Firpo the best test Wills had faced in years) in 1924, so he must have had some decent rating after he lost to Dempsey.

    It's all speculation, admittedly.

    I rate Dempsey as one of the greatest, in spite of his unsatisfactory reign, which I marked "C+" on the other thread.

    Anyway, this thread is GENE TUNNEY ... who I believe had a decent resume against the fighters who were leaders in the HW division.
    Also, he peaked as a 189 pound fighter, better than he was at 175 - where some insist he should be ranked near the top.
     
    Unforgiven, May 23, 2011
    Unforgiven, May 23, 2011
    #57
  13. Ai-edy2007

    Ai-edy2007 STOCKTON 209 MOTHER****ER Full Member

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    no way.
     
    Ai-edy2007, May 23, 2011
    Ai-edy2007, May 23, 2011
    #58
  14. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Tunney was a great fighter ... an all time top ten heavyweight, no. Too many fighters through the years and too many much bigger men ... al all time top ten cruiser, quite possibly ...
     
    he grant, May 23, 2011
    he grant, May 23, 2011
    #59
  15. SLAKKA

    SLAKKA Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Genes biggest booster was Whitey Bimstein who favored him over Joe Louis.
     
    SLAKKA, May 23, 2011
    SLAKKA, May 23, 2011
    #60
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