AP scored the fight 10-4-1 in rounds. I have 10 other ringsiders scorecards. None of them have charles winning more than 5 rounds. "Six rounds Charles won" Only one scorecard I have seen out of several has Charles winning 6 rounds. It seems like Charles got the benefit of the doubt here. Most scorecards have Charles winning 5 rounds at best. They have round by round description in various newspaper articles and live audio of the entire fight. Charles got absolutely dominated rounds 6-15 except for one round. "Rematch" It was a close but clear win for rocky. no controversy. The real reason their was a rematch was because the fight would sell big time. It was a very exciting fight, a war. Fans wanted to see a rematch. It would draw very well. It had nothing to do with decision being controversial.
Yeah, I posted a direct quote from the ringsider doctor who stated he was not going to stop the fight. So that closes the book on that issue.
Rocky did fight a ranked contender who moved around the ring with his hands low. Harry Kid Matthews. A poor mans gene Tunney. But, Rocky showed pretty empathically how he can catch up to that style. You are right in Tunney never fought a puncher like a peak Marciano, but he also never fought anyone with the conditioning and workrate of a Marciano except Greb, and Greb was a lot smaller than Tunney but beat him multiple times by outworking him. "If it goes the distance, Tunney wins" I don't know about that. Marciano fought skilled boxers on the same level as Tunney like Moore and Charles and won plenty of rounds vs them. Yes, I know about tunneys use of his legs. Ive already explained, Marciano cut off the ring very well. He was great in his crouch at making himself a small target and throwing punches from all angles. Tunney kept his hands very low. Marciano is going to make him pay for that with either a left hook or Suzy Q right hand. Once tunney is hurt, he will slow down and Marciano will pound away. Marciano will throw 100 punches per round at tunney. Tunney will wear down and slow down as the fight continues. Tunney could hit hard on the move, but Marciano had a great chin and would keep coming and once he traps tunney on the ropes, Tunney would try to clinch but Marciano was an expert at getting himself out of the clinch and hammering away. Tunney did not know how to fight in close. Bottom line, Tunney can't keep Marciano on the outside for 15 rounds. Marciano will get inside and will make Tunney pay for his low guard..and once tunney is hurt, Marciano will smell blood and throw 30-50 punches in a row trying to get him outta there. May not be enough to stop tunney but its enough to win the round. Marciano CAN take a decision off tunney if he needs too
yeah but marciano cuts off the ring as well as anyone. Hes going to have to take those shots. Does tunney have an inside game at all? No way. he was one dimensional, although he was great at it. He could do enough on the outside to take 8 rounds against Marciano
Moore was 38, not 41. Dempsey hadn't fought in 3 years. He was out of shape. Moore was very active coming off a 21 fight winning streak with wins over Harold Johnson, Nino Valdes, Bob Baker, Clarence Henry, and Bobo Olsen. "That Dempsey may have beat Rocky" a 32 year old dempsey coming off a 3 year layoff beats a peak Marciano? Highly doubt it. Dempsey was out of shape, Marciano would have had dempsey gassed after 5 rounds and beaten him to a bloody pulp after. "A 32-year-old Dempsey certainly wouldn't have had to chase a 30-year-old Rocky around the ring." Even better for the rock. Go toe to toe with a 32 year old whose reflexes had declined, whose timing was off from a 3 year layoff, and whose stamina would be burst after 5 rounds because he wasn't in top condition "Tunney's speed and power made Dempsey look bad." True. It helped that Dempsey was coming off a 3 year layoff in his 30s and wasnt in top condition. "Rocky never had to run down anyone like Gene Tunney. Rocky may have looked even worse than Dempsey did against Tunney. It's not like Rocky had faster hands than Dempsey." Gene never had to deal with a two fisted heavyweight puncher who had the high punching volume, the work rate and stamina, plus cutting off the ring ability of a Marciano. Rocky's stamina, work rate were on a much higher level than that version of Dempsey. Would have been a close fight
No. I do rate Tunney slightly higher than Moore at Heavyweight. But resume is important in judging fighters. It's one of my biggest criticisms of Dempsey. I think he was an elite talent who has a poor resume for such a great talent. Tunney was clearly a great fighter on film, an excellent outsider boxer. However, he is another whose resume is paper thin who didn't prove himself against a whole list of top tier fighters. How would his style have played out against some of the better heavyweights he missed out on? Probably just fine, but we never know
Yes, I think so...but the point i was making is Marciano is capable of cutting off the ring on a fast fleeted fighter and scoring enough volume to win a decision. I am not comparing matthews talent level to Tunneys and I said so in the post.
Dempsey did what he had to do, he was a smart man. However, it definitely detracts some what from his legacy.
Yeah, I think Tunney could win 8-9 rounds enough to take the decision especially if he takes a page out of Walcott's gameplan in fight I...but I can also see Marciano throwing and scoring enough in volume to take 8 rounds. A marciano late knockout is certainly on the table, Marciano is an all time great puncher and finisher. It would have been an excellent fight for sure.
?????? I have a hard time understanding what the point is of this other than that Dempsey goes "Hollywood" and eschews defending his title. There was a very good college football player in 1925 named Johnny Mack Brown who starred in the 1926 Rose Bowl and, being a good looking chap, elected to sign a contract with MGM rather than play in the NFL. Very understandable. And Brown ended up being a fair actor who enjoyed an over 25 year career as a leading man in some A's and later as a B western star. But Johnny Mack Brown was not an NFL star or even player, and nothing can be said about him as such. Hard to see what a contract with Universal studio has to do with being a top boxer. It isn't even a good excuse for not defending his title, as movies were shot so quickly in the silent days that Dempsey probably could have made a few movies a year and still fought fights. Red Grange made movies but played every year in the NFL. I recommend the serial "The Galloping Ghost" with Grange as it is fun. NFL star Sammy Baugh later starred in the even better serial "King of the Texas Rangers" while carrying on his football career w/o interruption. By the way, that $1 million impresses me as Hollywood puffery. They would be paying Dempsey more than top box office stars. Seems unlikely to me.
