Gene Tunney, Why isn’t he higher on the all time list?

He drew the color line, which is a shame and looks very bad today;
I guess Dempsey did too but nobody ranks Dempsey high, at least not here we don´t.

 

Few heavyweight fights.

 

what do you mean. He is usually in the top 5 or 6 on LHW lists right? And always top 10 .. but When Greb beats you up twice giving up 12 pounds then 8 should answer the question if thats what you are searching for. Resume not the strongest, probably does better in H2H rankings than resume
imo

 

Yeah,as a HW, but how about as a LHW ? He did beat Greb once I think, don´t even know tbh if it was once,,, that is the GOAT for a few people... he beat Loughran that many here rate high last time I read something about him people were talking high about Loughran...

 

Can come up with several reasons why modern fans disfavor Tunney.

a)One is people in the alphabet era view cleaner resumes with almost no losses with suspicion that wasn't there at the time. They are more inclined to favor someone like Greb who fought a better SOS but has a few more losses and a lower KO rate. The modern boxing fan sees a 0 or no unavenged losses as a sign that a fighter has been farming their record even when its not true.

b) Tunney is being blamed for not fighting HWs from the next generation he could have fought if he hung around into his late 30s. While said HWs are held in high esteem today at the time Tunney retired it looked like Tunney had done everything he could have done. Sharkey had failed to earn a shot at Tunney twice and Schmeling was just another IBU champ who'd vacated his belt to come to the US like Uzcudin. But today people don't respect Tunneys era of HW nearly as much as they respect those guys.

Tunney is also blamed for not fighting Willis who lost his 3 year status as number 1 contender around the time Tunney got the belt. I think Willis v Uzcudin was part of a tourney to decide the opponent for Tunneys final fight and Willis lost. Tunney is very much getting blamed for the sins of Dempsey here.

c)While the ABA was a major belt in the 1910s and 1920s it is not treated as such today perhaps because people associate the phrase American champ with the NABF and USBA. Tunney beat Carpentier who'd lifted the Lineal LHW belt off Levinsky though at this point Carpentier was no longer IBU champion. Thus today you have people on occasion asking why Tunney never fought for the LHW belt because he will not appear on any list of champions. Which at the time would not have been an objection anyone would have. Tunney had wins over Loughran, Greb, Carpentier and Levinsky. At the time Tunney retired that might have been the LHW all time top 5.

d)The fact he split his career between 2 weight classes somewhat evenly. This sort of career hurts in both divisions ATG rankings. While his career was long it wasn't long enough to compensate for that.

e)Tunney was bigger than Greb. While Tunney narrowly won their series Greb is being graded on a curve when comparing the two.

f)I'm not sure Dempsey is rated higher than Tunney by most people but the reasons I could think of were the Long Count and Dempseys whole giant slaying thing. Dempsey was a 1920s scaled up version of Mike Tyson. KOing feared opponents quickly gives a champion an "aura" they don't get from simply winning.

 

Dempsey did fight black fighters prior to winning the title and also had black sparring partners. Tunney did neither.

 

I think he was 4-1 against Greb, although, if I remember correctly, one of them was controversial.

 

Tunney was ahead 3-1-1 but the series could have went either way. Besides Tunnys last win all the fights were close.

Loughran was probably the LHW GOAT for the 1st half of the 20th century despite leaving the division for HW at 27. Greb was 4-1-1 against Loughran but 2 of the Greb wins were close.

All 11 of the Greb v Tunney/Loughran fights were decisions.


Greb is the internet GOAT. People with the internet weighing everything look at his SOS and P4P acheivement have come to the conclusion hes done the most according to the criteria they've determined are important. And thats reasonable though I think however high Greb goes on an ATG list Tunney should come with him if not be above him.

 

Absolutely bizarre the way you infer Greb wasn’t anyone special. Losing to Greb when you outweighs him by five kilos is some kind of mark against you? What!?

 

Not under-rated by me. At LHW or HW.

 

That isn't nearly as historically important as Dempsey ducking Willis for 3 years after they were supposed to fight in September 1923. Thats all on Dempsey not Tunney and not even on American society because sanctioning bodies told Dempsey to fight Willis.

 

Thin resume.