Gene Tunney's decision to fight Heeney instead of Sharkey in finale

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by SuzieQ49, Jul 14, 2022.


  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Well him saying he'd badly declined, would hardly help him get money fights.
     
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  2. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    The Sharkey fight in 28 was probably his peak. He outfought Sharkey, deserved that one. Meanwhile he lost to Sharkey in 1925 a month before the Tunney fight. Risko appeared to dramatically go downhill after Schmeling battered him in 29 his first knockout loss. I know Risko didn't have the best management. He was quite the guy. Fought for the US Army in his 40s during WW II
     
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Fun fact a number of the papers attributed Risko's decline to the body punches he took from Godfrey.

    Was this an example of myth making after the fact that shows noncontemporary accounts are often inaccurate?

    Was this an accurate reflection of the fight (making the claims Godfrey threw it look utterly implausible)?

    I'll let you decide
     
  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I posted comments about him being past his peak that were in the run up to the Schmeling fight.

    Sharkey was very inconsistent, hardly the best barometer.
     
  5. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Interesting couple articles and passages here

    Godfrey was fired from a ten year contract as a sparring partner for Dempsey because he " Left the champion punch drunk and softened up for Gibbons". The media was reporting on how Godfrey was getting the better of Jack, the trainers were not happy their man is being busted up and looking poorly in the press, so, they ran a story which was later redacted by the story teller about Godfrey being too hurt to continue training with Jack. From there, Godfrey makes repeated attempts to prove Jack was on the hurt end of their sparring. It's not until after the fact it's revealed Dempsey's team conspired to remove and humiliate Godfrey because they were scared of him.

    From the Sundowners.


    "Godfrey-Paulino. For a long time, George Godfrey, 240-pound black man has been giving people the impression that he could knock out Dempsey and Tunney the same night if he would only try. For a long time George Godfrey has demanded what he thinks he deserves--a match with Tunney. Only a few sharp-eyed critics have warned George Godfrey that the trouble with demanding what he deserves is that he might get it. Last week in Los Angeles George Godfrey met Paolino Uzcudun, Basque, who still has to bring an interpreter to the ring so that he can understand what the referee says. Forty-four pounds lighter than the black man, Paolino lost the decision in a ten round bout made up mostly of clinching." - Mar 12th, 1928, Time Magazine

    "Godfrey-Risko. There is always one fighter among heavyweight fighters who is called the Black Menace. It used to be Wills. Now, as everyone knows, it is George Godfrey, Alabama blackamoor. To be the black menace a fighter must be big. Godfrey weighs 245 pounds when he is thin. The Black Menace must have beaten up a lot of inferior fighters. Godfrey fought 16 times last year, scored 16 knockouts. Above all, to be the Black Menace, it must be rumored that he is: 1) so formidable that the heavyweight champion is afriad of him, and 2) crooked. Godfrey fulfills these conditions. He is very good natured and always smiles kindly and hideously at his opponents. His larded body melts with any exertion, making him hard to hold in clinches. He has enormous strength and like checked neckties, pork chops, going to the zoo, and resting. This week, after much palaver and two postponements because of rain, he climbed into a ring and mauled around with Johnny Risko, baker-boy from Cleveland." - July 2nd, 1928, Time Magazine
     
  6. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Here's the information I'll let you decide




    (Thank you Ben for posting this a while back)

    Johnny Risko Spoils Hopes Of George Godfrey For Boxing Fame, Fast Finish Made


    By Cleveland Pug

    Thrilling rally In Last Two Rounds Believed To Have Decided
    Profit Made In Tilt
    One Of The Few Fiancial Successes Of Summer’s Outdoor Ring Season

    Once more that pudgy Clevelander, spoiler of heavyweight favorites, doughy Johnny Risko, has battered out of the limelight a man generally picked to defeat him.
    This time the victim was George Godfrey, successor to Harry Wills as the current "Black Menace" and the man generally avoided by all heavyweights who seek advancement in their profession. To Risko was awarded the victory after 10 rounds of vicious, bruising mauling last night in the ball park of the Brooklyn Nationals, Ebbets field.
    Critics Don't Agree

    Although the verdict of the judges met with only luke warm approval from 25,000 fans several sport writers gave Risko a margin of five rounds with four for Godfrey and one even. The Associated Press score sheet gave the Negro giant five rounds, with three for Risko and two even.
    Risko apparently caught the judge's eyes with a thrilling rally in the last two rounds that had the 235-pound Negro giant glad to hold and back away from the stress of left hooks Johnny threw at his head and body. There was no semblance of a knockdown and neither bore marks of the battle at the close.
    The warfare for the most part was at close range, with a premium on clouts to the ribs that rarely bothered either battler. Risko absorbed Godfrey's right hand smashes and came back smiling for more while the best shots of Cleveland boy hardly dented the man mountain opposite him.
    Legs Bother
    In the early rounds Godfrey toyed with the rushing youngster who spoiled Jack Sharkey, Jack Delaney and others as drawing cards
    in Tex Rickard's elimination tournament last winter. But the great bulk of his frame wrested heavily on the Negro's slender legs in the last five rounds and Johnny, plugging steadily forward left hand a winging ahead to take the verdict.
    The match was one of the few financial successes of the rainy summer season of many postponements. Receipts were $51.684.

    ROUND - BY – ROUND

    Round One
    Godfrey, a smiling giant compared with the squat and pugly Risko, hammered a left and right on the Cleveland boy's body.Risko bounced his famous left hook off the negro's body and shot two overhand rights to the head- Risko stepped rather easily around the slow moving, ponderous giant, landing easily with his left, but there was danger always in the smashing right Godfrey used steadily as a counter.

    Round Two
    Risko bounced forward into a flood of left hooks to the head, that the Negro growing vicious, smashed accurately to their marks. Under the storm of blows as Godfrey threw everything into the attack, Risko wilted and the giant Negro nearly wrestled him to the floor. Risko held a. moment to gain his wind, then flailed Into the huge negro with overhand rights 'that had Godfrey holding at the bell.

    Round Three
    Risko tugged and hauled at Big George, almost pulling himself from his feet as he tried to cut the huge black down to his own size with body punches. George took to holding and countering with his right as Johnny stormed into him, throwing caution to the winds. Risko, a pigmy besides Godfrey's massive bulk, still had the courage to carry the fight to his foe. Godfrey smashed two left hooks to the chin, and a numbing right to the heart as Risko missed a wild left hook just before the bell.

    Round Four
    Godfrey, a full head taller than his rival, bored in with all his heft to plant left and right on Risko's body Risko pecked with his left and backed away, hurt by Godfrey's tremendous body punches. A storm of lefts and rights to Risko's body almost knocked the white man from his feet. There was tremendous power behind Godfrey's enormous swings. But the Cleveland rubber man, game as a pebble, shot his right to the head and kept everlastingly trying -right up to the bell.

    Round Five
    As Risko danced in, more cautious now, Godfrey smashed his body with lefts and 'rights and drew grunts heard back in the two dollar seats.
    Johnny made little impression of the man mountain with his very best blows and Godfrey's long arms easily reached Johnny's body- Godfrey belted the white boy all around the ring with an awful body barrage. Johnny was game, but mighty tired at the gong.

    Round Six
    Godfrey laid back, content to let Risko carry the burden of attack and hold when Johnny got dangerous Risko smashed a left hook full on Godfrey's chin but Big George only smiled. Like a terrier worrying a mastiff, Johnny pounded in and ran smack into a series of short rights to the head that bounced him backward. Johnny beamed to allay the fears of his admirers and came back to his corner smiling at the bell.

    Round Seven
    Godfrey nearly floored Risko with a hammering left and right to the chin. Johnny backed clear to- the ropes arms wound about his head, body crouched in protection. Godfrey let him go and shot his right to the heart as they came back to the center of the ring. Risko flinched under a left hook to the body but valiantly hooked his left back at Godfrey’s bald head.
    They wrestled and mauled about the ring up to the bell with Godfrey’s huge arms giving him a tremendous advantage.

    Round Eight
    Godfrey dueled lefts successfully with Risko, mauling and tugging at close quarters , often separated by the referee. Both slugged to the body. Risko hooked his left clean to the head twice but they were wrestling again at the bell.

    Round Nine
    Risko never stopped trying, piling into the negro with left and right swings to the head despite Godfrey's smashes to the body. Johnny slugged big George freely about the head, drove him into a corner for a steady pasting, and the crowd roared as they battled like a pair of dock workers. Johnny belabored Godfrey with both hands, slugging without defense, and absorbed half a dozen right counters without a quiver at the gong.

    Round Ten
    Risko swarmed all over the big Negro, driving him to the ropes under a cloud of swings that came from all directions. Risko buried his left deep in Godfrey's body and George wilted. Godfrey rallied swinging Risko about the ring with his massive arms and shooting his punches short to the body. Johnny never stopped trying, swinging both lefts and rights to the negro’s head. Very tired they leaned heads together and ponded each others ribs while the crowd bellowed encouragement at Risko. They were hauling and tugging at the final gong.



    Other accounts from Kevin Smith, Sundowners and Chuck Hasson Philadelphia Boxing History:


    "I think Godfrey was the most handcuffed fighter of all time. When we interviewed Dougherty's son Howard, who was also a promoter and drove Godfrey across country for his campaign in California, He talked of all the concessions they had to make in order for Godfrey to meet high rated fighters including carrying opponents, fouling out, etc. His loss to Risko was a case in point as some fair eyewitness scribes have noted that Godfrey easily handled Risko for the first eight rounds at Ebbetts Field then Risko made a courageous stand in the last two rounds and they awarded him the decision.


    "It was widely understood in Philly that Godfrey agreed to "carry" Risko, that his first two matches with Renault were "smellers" and his "foul-outs" were "ordered." Today People don't realize that one leading black challenger (Wills) was tolerated because of his "good name" with the New York commission but two top black challengers were frowned on. Godfrey and his management (Dougherty) tried to alleviate the situation by attempting to lure Wills into the ring by any means, but of course Wills and Paddy Mullins were not about to risk their position that they earned by taking on young, and very dangerous opponent like Godfrey."
     
  7. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Godfrey when motivated and in peak shape was a force to be reckoned with, but unfortunately Godfrey was often lazy, which is why trainers frequently walked on him and people were hesitant to risk a lot of money on him.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2022
  8. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Do you think books are more compelling evidence than footage?
     
  9. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I bothered to watch this fight again:

    This content is protected


    Maybe your HD version shows something different, but I view this fight differently. In the first round, Godfrey indeed looks very agressive (just like he would in the fixed fight, right?) and he surprised Carnera with a few overhand rights. Primo took it well (let's talk about his horrible chin), but Godfrey clearly won the first round. In the second round, Godfrey focused more on body shots, he didn't throw as many overhand rights but Carnera already adjusted. Primo started to land his jab on Godfrey. Godfrey was a mauler that tried to overpower bigger and stronger opponent. It cost him a lot of energy and it's evident at the end of the second round. In the third, Carnera started to get better out of him inside and in the fourth he staggered Godfrey twice with combinations, though George also took it well and was fine after a few seconds. He still tried hard to win, attacking Carnera's body and trying to maul him but it took the energy out of him and Carnera seemed to be comfortable. We all know what happened in the fifth.

    The end of the fight does look suspicious, but not more than Bowe vs GoĊ‚ota. It seems that Godfrey started to be more and more frustrated, because he couldn't overpower Carnera. He also started agressively, probably hoping for the early KO but Carnera lasted the first round and George started to gass.

    I don't reject the possibility of this fight being fixed, but it doesn't look like the one and Godfrey didn't dominate Carnera outside of the first round.

    Godfrey was a mauler with leaky defense and poor conditioning. He was fairly quick for his size and definitely tough, though probably not mentally. I don't deny that he had it tougher than white fighters, he definitely had. He never showed anything to believe that he was some kind of feared monster you try to make him out. He lost a lot of fights against other black contenders and I won't believe these were fixed as well without very strong proof.

    Racism in the early 20th century was a horrible thing, we should all thank God that it's finally over. With that being said, not all black fighters were world beaters. Harry Wills was extremely unlucky because of circumstances, Godfrey was just a decent contender who lost against the best he faced. Unlike other black fighters, he got his chance against the best white competition and he didn't win any of these fights. He lost against Sharkey straight, Risko bout was close as your report suggested and he DQ himself against Carnera. Again, maybe all of these fights were fixed, but then it would mean that all black fighters were treated this way and were way superior than white talent pool. We don't have any evidences to believe that, it actually resonates with racism in the other direction
     
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  10. Liston73

    Liston73 Active Member banned Full Member

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    Dempsey busted Godfrey's ribs in sparring.
     
  11. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Have you even read the reports of that fight? Few thought either showed anything to earn them a title shot, and it was a terrible performance from Sharkey. Or maybe we should just assume Sharkey had to throw the fight for whatever reason.

    The Brooklyn Daily Times- 1928 Mar 13
    By James J Wood
    . . .
    To tell the truth many left the Garden last night convinced that the Bostonian was the better man, in spite of the decisionm with which no fair-minded man could find fault.
    Risko won beyond question. It was close enough, if you adhere to the round-byround system of our State Athletic Commission. Risko wasn't so far in front. He just did manage to squeeze in. In fact if Sharkey had shown as much in the early rounds as he did in the 15h and final chapter I don't think John would have had any margin to boast of.
    But throughout Sharkey was the same lethargic gent who got the draw with Heeney, gazing at the time clock and reviewing advertisements on hockey games and whatnot when he should have been plying his trade. He didn't step out against John until pressed and that's what cost him the decision.
     
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  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Tunney was in the happy position where the rankings coincided with what he wanted to do.

    The point where Godfrey's currency is highest, is probably after Tunney retired.

    Therefore what he should have got is not so much a title shot, as a place in the tournament to replace Tunney as champion.
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Of course a fighter who throws a fight, eliminates themself from contention as much as one who is beaten.
     
  14. SuzieQ49

    SuzieQ49 The Manager Full Member

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    Let me guess you think McGovern gans fight was on the level Lol
     
  15. Jason Thomas

    Jason Thomas Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A lot of interesting side issues raised. One is when Risko peaked. It was obviously not when he fought Tunney. He hadn't a win over a really top man yet. He could beat the second stringers, but lose to the better guys. His first big win was over Paul Berlenbach in the spring of 1926, about five months after the Tunney loss, with the help of a huge weight pull. He continued to look mediocre through a loss to Jimmy Slattery on 3/28/1927. At that point he went on the best run of his career, going 17-1-1, the only loss to Heeney, and scoring wins over Delaney, Uzcudun, Sharkey, and Godfrey. He began more or less splitting between wins and losses after the Godfrey fight, with losses in late 1928 to Maloney and Schaaf.

    Risko overall record 68-46-6
    Risko 1927 to 1928 run 17-1-1
    Risko record outside of run 51-45-5 (barely winning 50% of his fights with won-lost-draw results)

    While from the fall of 1928 on Risko became a win one, lose one, or even a win one, lose two or three, fighter, he continued to be able to beat high-ranking contenders. These are the top men he defeated year by year:

    1926--Paul Berlenbach
    1927--Jack Delaney, Paulino Uzcudun, Phil Scott
    1928--Jack Sharkey, George Godfrey, Bearcat Wright
    1929--Otto von Porat, Jim Maloney, Ernie Schaaf
    1930--Vittorio Campolo, Paulino Uzcudun, Jim Maloney
    1931--Tom Heeney, King Levinsky, Max Baer, Tony Galento
    1932--Mickey Walker, Tuffy Griffiths, King Levinsky
    1933--King Levinsky, Tommy Loughran
    1934--Jim Maloney, Tommy Loughran
    1935-1936 inactive
    1937--Bob Olin

    Some of these men were past it, some were young, but quite a few were highly rated at the time Risko upended them.