Gennady Golovkin ATG Middleweight Ranking

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by DavidBarnes, Mar 17, 2020.


  1. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Clearly they do, if their defenses have been, in the main, against mediocre to poor opposition.


    And, Bernard Hopkins is just that... ...with 6 of his 20 defenses, as the Undisputed Middleweight Champion of the World; the first since Hagler.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
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  2. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Half of those defenses were for the same title that claims Manuel Charr is a Champion.
     
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  3. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    So, those initial 9 or 10 WBA defenses were for the Regular/Ordinary Title?
     
  4. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    The first 10 , yeah. I think Macklin and Proska were the only 2 guys ranked in the top 10 until he fought Geale for the full title
     
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  5. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    Jones yes, but Toney is far too steady and flat-footed, there would be Golovkin even the better mover, just as had he not enough power to impress this counterpart.

    He only won 1 or 2 rounds against Nunn. But I doubt he can stop Golovkin, rather vice versa.

    It is about the Middleweight onyl, there was he outboxed by average second tier boxer Tiberi, which was the worst robbery in that year. Got a draw over faded McCullum and many viewer didn't see him as winner vs. Johnson. He also received a controversial split decision against Barkley.
    Iran Barkley ane Dave Tiberi were never at the level of Golovkin, maybe would have lost against Jacobs, Geale and Macklin.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2020
  6. Loudon

    Loudon Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    James Toney had great skills.

    He didn't only take 1-2 rounds off of Nunn, and he wasn't at all lucky. He'd turned the fight around at that point. And we're talking here about a prime version of Michael Nunn. A 6'3 southpaw with a huge 77" reach, with great speed and skills.

    GG has never seen a fighter like Micheal Nunn before. We don't know how that fight would have played out.

    He's never fought a tricky southpaw like Reggie Johnson either.

    Mike McCallum might have been faded, but he was still a great fighter. Who's GG fought with those technical skills? Mike had more skills than Canelo.

    Having close fights with guys of that calibre shouldn't be criticised. They were all top level opponents.

    Regarding Barkley, you're confusing him with someone else. James easily beat Barkley and it was at SMW.

    Regarding Tiberi, yes, James was honest enough to admit that he'd lost that one. But he was only young and he was fighting every 2 months at that stage of his career. I think they should have had a rematch.

    James was far more proven at the weight.

    He fought better fighters and encountered more styles.

    Unless he'd not have trained, I don't see why he couldn't have followed GG's exact timeline and replicated those same results. The only thing stopping him would have been a lack of focus and still being able to make the weight at an advanced age. But look who he fought at the higher weights. He beat guys like Barkley, Littles and Jirov at CW. Many people thought he'd won at least one of the Griffin fights.

    There's none of GG's opponents that I'd pick over James. And if they'd have both fought each other whilst they were both at their best, then I'd pick James everytime. James was better than what Canelo is.
     
  7. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    Do you call top ten Ring Magazine raked opponents, cans to be crushed? Yes or no?. Its still duck season with you, because as you know the truth doesn't agree with your opinion. So give me an answer. Hopkins didn't fight great opposition during his title defenses. He had some name welters moving up and a regular group of contenders for the most part with Don King pulling strings for him.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  8. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    You call it a draw. Okay buddy, do you call Monzon's draws and Hagler's draws a draw, or do you actually watch the fights to see who won it?

    I've seen you redefine draws, and sometimes you have a point, but with GGG, you won't. Sure, nice to be objective. No draw in the history of boxing has media cards this lopsided. Once again:

    The cards from people covering or in boxing. GGG vs Canelo 1.

    116 = GGG won
    021 = Draw
    009 = Canelo won [includes 2 Golden Boy promoters]

    116/146 = 79% had GGG winning the fight.
    021/146 = 15% had a draw.
    009/146 = 06% had Canelo winning the fight.

    It was a robbery.
     
  9. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Hyperbole, to say the least.
    I don't see why not.
     
  10. Ra's Al-Ghul

    Ra's Al-Ghul The one and only! Full Member

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    He was of course lucky, as he needed the knockout in the last but one round, as he was so far behind on points, that it was impossible to turn the decision in his favour (so it was like Grant vs. Golota). But Nunn was just tired because he had to make weight (which is always a favoured excuse of Toney himself, especially when it come to his humilitation by Jones), but also got he careless/ over-confident (like Byrd vs. Ibeabuchi) and likely underestimated the opponent.

    The current Alvarez was probably better this version of McCullum, especially was he at his peak when they fought. And Golovkin won quite more comfortable (particular the first time) than Toney it did.

    But Reggie Johnson is not at the same level as Gennady Golovkin, especially as puncher, but was able to knock Toney down. The point is Toney got a gift where and an even bigger one over has-been Tiberi, who is lower rated than Jacobs, Geale, Derschenjenko, Macklin, Lemieux and possible even Proksa. He had when already 3 defences as world title-holder and others fought all 2 months too (like Tyson, who boxed even two months in row).

    Well I possible mixed Toney up with Duran. But he was even outworked by journeyman Williams, when he had already 20 professional fights done.

    Neither Barkley, Littles (which were limited and hardly elite) nor Shirov in Middleweight, so this is not relevant for the discusion. But the second Griffin fight lost he very wide.

    When you claim he was against Tiberi too young, when does count this likely for his whole Middleweight career, as he left the division 10 months later. So when this is your argument for the poor performances vs. Tiberi and Williams among others, then was he most likely too green for Golovkin as well.

    What about red head? What do you mean?
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  11. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Criticizing Nard for facing Welters while at the same time propping up GGG for trying to fight Welters. Pitiful double standards exposed.

     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    You missed my point Dino. Did Mayweater, Pacquaio, or Cotto dare face GGG? Nope. They would have beaten badly and wanted no part of it.

    But Tito ( Welter ) and De La Hoya ( light weight / super feather weight ) jumped up in class to meet Hopkins.
     
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2020
  13. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Addict Full Member

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    No. Although, even some of the ranked opponents he has beaten have not really gone anywhere. It was a low period for the division, but something has to fill the vacuum, right?

    Added to that - How many Ring-Rated opponents did Golovkin actually beat in his 19 successful defenses?

    I'd wager that it numbers less than half of those defenses. And this, in one of the shallowest eras for some time.



    This^ is worrying, almost. I haven't ducked any question from you, so it isn't "still" anything. Why are you insisting on this type of posturing?

    For someone, who has tried to rewrite history in this thread, I find it very strange that you would come out with something about me knowing "the truth doesn't agree with [my] opinion".

    Whereas you have most definitely declared your opinion as fact (Golovkin, according to your mind, has 20 successful defenses), because you can't accept the truth that he lost to Canelo... ...Seriously, these are not good signs.


    Overall, Hopkins beat better opposition than Golovkin.
    He also became the undisputed middleweight champion.


    Yes - because it was indeed a Draw.


    Hagler's record stands at 62-3-2
    Monzon's record stands at 87-3-9

    So - Yes


    No - you haven't.

    You've seen me state that there's no accounting for the accuracy of the Judges scoring.



    I don't care what you think it was. The result was a Draw; ergo, it cannot be classed as a win.

    But the debate over the Golovkin/Canelo Draw has been nothing but a distraction, because it's not really what I initially took issue with...


    ...It was this:


    Bumping up the number of Golovkin's Title defenses, regardless of the actual results.

    That is just you being ridiculously dishonest with yourself - it's not even funny anymore.
     
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  14. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    If you can show me media cards that show a larger robbery that was a draw, that would be very rare. Bad decisions are part of boxing, but knowledge fans or historians don't hold a bogus draw against a fighter. That's the standard that should apply. I gave 100 media cards to prove it, and all of them overwhelming say GGG won that fight.

    OR

    Okay, Monzon has 9 draws, and not one of them were against a fighter as good as Canelo. Our pal Man_Machine might refer to these opponents as "cans " Let's apply the same standard and then ask, would any of these 9 who drew with Monzon have a chance vs. GGG? No is the answer.
     
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  15. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Addict Full Member

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