Gennady Golovkin is gonna drop Canelo hard with a body shot

It's plain you don't want to discuss the many times broken lineage of the middleweight lineal title, and I hardly blame you because it diminishes Canello's stocks to have that title seen for what it is.

 

I am only complaining about it because you guys get the narrative wrong time after time. He wasn't told he had 15 days or he would be stripped, he was told it would go to purse bid.
15 days is plenty of time to work it out IF you are smart and you negotiate while the Khan camp is underway--that's an additional 8 weeks--They did that apparently while the JCJr camp was going to announce the fight right after so it is obviously something that can be done.

 

At the time of the Canelo fight, it was touted as one of the best in the game.

This makes alot of sense to me. GGG using his size/power advantage to bully Canelo. Why would he not? Canelo hasn't really ever been mobile and GGG is skilled in cutting off the ring even if he was. Can't think of any prior opponents really capable of this. Angulo and Kirkland certainly tried, but they were levels below in terms of class and I'm not sure they were actually bigger/stronger than Canelo like GGG probably is.

GGG will probably wear Canelo down and stop him late, though he might be bleeding and behind on the cards at the time. Rooting the other way though, so I'll be happy to be proven wrong.

War Canelo!!

 

I don’t see how they could have been negotiating during the Khan camp, with the agreement being that they weren’t to start negotiations until after the Khan bout. Negotiating before the Khan bout would have been pointless, since there was a possibility that Khan could have won the Title from Canelo, and presumably then Gennady would have been Khan’s mandatory. (And I doubt he’d have been given a 15 day timetable)

From reading that statement “The aforementioned condition was supposed to prompt immediate negotiations between Alvarez and Golovkin”, that sounds pretty open ended. “Supposed to prompt immediate negotiations”? For all we know Sulaiman was just saying that he was under the impression there would be negotiations immediately without having it in writing. It sounds to me like he just took it upon himself to issue that 15 day timetable which obviously annoyed Canelo, and I can understand why, especially if he’s just coming off a major fight and dealing with a court case during that time.

I’m not sure what this Jan 2016 Oscar 90/10 quote has to do with anything. I have no idea where or when he said that, so please provide your source for that. Even if he said that, I’m trying to understand what relevance that has to any of this. The only thing that’s crystal clear is that Oscar certainly didn’t have the commissions in his pocket as has been claimed by some Triple G fans.

As far as your statement about Canelo needing to put on his big boy pants and about it being in the deal, you don’t know what was in the deal and neither do I so I’m not going to speculate on the specifics of the agreement. What I do know is that I can plainly see how issuing such a 15-day timetable would annoy someone like Canelo who just got done winning a huge fight and was dealing with a court case in the weeks following the Khan bout.

Purse bids may happen all the time, but this wasn’t just an every day fight, this was the biggest fight in boxing, and Canelo was not going to be dictated to from the WBC and given timetables. The timetable was the primary reason given as to why he decided to vacate his title. I also think that fact that he had been negotiating his own fights for years, and had seen how Mayweather had done business he wasn’t going to all of a sudden change the way he does business and allow a 3rd party like a corrupt boxing organization tell him what the split was and tell him when he said to negotiate by and all that jazz. If you can’t see how that could be seen as disrespectful, then I don’t know what to tell you. Also you factor in how Cotto didn’t pay the sanctioning fees for his fight with Canelo when he won it, and the fact that he hadn’t fought above 155 lbs in his life, well all these factors I think played a role, but at the end of the day it wasn’t about putting on his big boy pants, it was about being treated with respect and not having a commission practically working for his opponent and doing everything possible to dictate the terms of the bout in a way to greatly diminish his ability to negotiate freely in ways that would greatly benefit his opponent.

 

That was a completely different situation. (apples to oranges) The WBC wasn't involved, there was no title on the line, except for that belt that honorary belt that Sulaiman created to try to once again insert himself into Canelo's business after he'd already been rejected lol.

Negotiating with Triple G prior to the JCC Jr fight not only made sense, but Oscar De La Hoya stated repeatedly for some time (following the Smith fight) that they had a verbal agreement to make the fight in September 2017 with Triple G. You're failing to understand that it's a completely different situation when a belt and a mandatory are involved. Basically it was in writing as you posted above that they weren't to negotiate until after the Canelo Khan fight, whereas there was no such requirement to wait until after the JCC Jr bout since a belt and a corrupt boxing organization like the WBC wasn't involved for Canelo Chavez. (even though Sulaiman tried to insert himself into Canelo Chavez which Canelo emphatically rejected lmao)

 

No really I seriously wasn't following what you were saying there. You said I was running away from a Lineal Title argument, then something about Canelo dropping the belt then ending up fighting Triple G. Also understand that there is in no way a broken lineage of the Middleweight Lineal Title. Essentially what you and many other Triple G fans were trying to do was to actually break that lineage and have it re-established for the Jacobs fight which was patently absurd on a number of levels. Again this was all part of the proven false belief that Canelo Triple G was never going to happen even though DLH stated in no uncertain terms that there was an agreement for the fight to be made in September 2017. Essentially you were calling DLH's bluff, but it turned out DLH was telling the truth and you were proven wrong. Canelo had made his intentions clear to compete at Middleweight moving foward following his win over Smith. There was no basis to have the lineage broken as you desired, so you were proven wrong on a number of levels and are still struggling with actually dealing with that fact. (but that's OK, that's why I'm here for)

The Middleweight Lineage is very clear and continuous dating back to the turn of the century. Hopkins - Taylor - Pavlik - Martinez - Cotto - Canelo. The fact that you're saying it has been broken shows that you don't you **** about boxing or Lineal Titles.

 

Lineal titles are intended to be the man who beat the man who beat the man.

The lineal middleweight title has break after break after break in it, and ceased to be the man who beat the man who beat the man many years ago.

Simple question for you:
Who was the lineal middleweight champion between 1994 and 2000?

 

It was vacant. And why was it vacant? It was because James Toney the Lineal Champ moved up to Super Middleweight and it was clear that he was unable to make Middleweight any longer, so he would unable to to defend the Title. It remained vacant because there wasn't a clear #1 vs #2 matchup to justify a new lineage being established. Hopkins remained at Middleweight while Toney and RJJ (the highest ranked Middleweights) moved up and had their Super Fight at Super Middleweight. Look at who Hopkins fought after losing to Roy Jones between 1994 and 2000. Were any of those fights big enough to establish a new lineage? The first Segundo Mercado fight was for the vacant IBF, and ended a draw. It wasn't until Trinidad brought other major world titles into his bout with Hopkins that a new lineage was established.

 

Correct the lineal middleweight title was vacant between Toney in 1993 and Hopkins in 2001. It was also vacant for 10 years between 1931 and 1941, and they are just two of the many lineage breaks that clearly demonstrate the lineal middleweight title, the title intended to be the man who beat the man who beat the man, is nothing of the sort.

 

According to the interim bout agreement, they were to begin formal negotiations the first business day after the Khan fight. GBP agreed to this.

The fight COULD have been negotiated through back channel talks during the Khan camp. With your built in bias to deny it that's ok--I get that. But it does happen and Canelo/JCJr PROVES it happens.

The relevance of the Oscar quote is clear to me--they only wanted to pay him 90/10 when at the very least he would have had much more than that if it goes to purse bid and there is a purse bid contracted amount of 75/25 or whatever the amount it. Google the quote--took me all of 10 seconds.

Again--explain how the WBC was working for GGG? By enforcing the mandatory or forcing a purse split? I do agree the 15 day time frame is a little odd--but the WBC would dictate the terms if it went to purse bid.

I think a fair question is in order--do you even have the ability to be critical of Canelo at all or is your confirmation bias so strong you will defend everything he does, but on the flip side you will find ways to be critical of GGG at every turn.

Here's my example--this is me being critical of GGG even though I am a fan--
K2/GGG have no one but themselves to blame for constantly taking all the step asides and not enforcing their mandatory. That is completely their fault.

See--my own confirmation bias leads me to believe that Canelo is just a cry baby, went back on the interim agreement to defend his mandatory, then ditched his belt to go back down to 154 to fight a guy not even ranked--

 

Thank you Captain Obvious. The occasional breaks in lineage throughout the 20th century have nothing to do with the current lineage which dates back to Hopkins and is continuous to Canelo. I think pretty much everyone would agree that Hopkins was the Man at Middleweight. He has the record for most consecutive title defenses at Middleweight, he beat Trinidad which made him a unified Champion and Lineal, by all accounts he was the Man. I understand what you're saying : Hopkins didn't beat "The Man" James Toney because James Toney moved up in weight never to return. However when a Lineal Title is vacated, and there's Super Fight between the #1 and #2 fighter with multiple World Titles on the Line, as you know a new "Man" is established. So Hopkins never beat the Man James Toney, I get that, he never got that opportunity. But he became the Man when he established himself as a MW Champ and Fought Trinidad to become the Man of the division. The difference between Toney and Canelo is that Canelo declared his intentions clearly to fight at Middleweight moving forward. He didn't move up never to return to the division like Toney did, to where a vacating of the belt would be warranted.

 

The Canello fanboys plying the 'GGG might hold the WBC, WBA, IBF and IBO titles, but Canello holds the pure as the driven snow, man-who-beat-the-man-who-beat-the-man Lineal title' line are simply demonstrating how little they know and how completely deluded they are.

 

You showing an example of you criticizing Triple G and K2 doesn’t prove by default that I am incapable of being critical of Canelo. I mean that’s just hilarious of you to make that argument. But the ironic part is the reason you are critical of Triple G for allowing these fight to occur, and taking all that step aside money is very relevant to this discussion. The whole idea that he was being paid “step aside money” by the WBC is very suspicious to me. In my view, that goes to the point I made earlier about him being in cahoots with the WBC. On the one hand you’re criticizing Canelo for not supposedly going along with having to the defend the title against his mandatory, but yet all along the WBC was paying Triple G money under the table so the speak to delay the mandatory from being enforced.

And this dates back to even before Canelo became Middleweight Champion. Apparently Triple G was being paid by the WBC so that Canelo vs Cotto can occur. If you’re so upset of fighters not fighting their mandatory, then by that argument Canelo vs Cotto should never have happened because Cotto vs Triple G should have happened instead.

Again the fact that Triple G was being literally paid by the WBC throughout this process sounds completely corrupt to me. I mean I don’t know how many other organization establish a mandatory only to pay that fighter so that the mandatory fight doesn’t occur. The whole idea of that is perposterous to me and again it speaks to the fact that Golovkin was benefitting from all of this financially and signed off on all of this stuff. Then on top of all that, after all the so-called step aside money being given to Golovkin, then he has the WBC giving Canelo timetables forcing him to agree to split that also would benefit Golovkin financially. This just reeks of corruptions, I’m not even blaming Golovkin so much for taking that money, the whole thing just reeks. There are so many problem with this I can go on all day, but just the fact that Canelo and Cotto had to agree that the winner fights Golovkin, the mandatory next, then I should point out that Cotto failed to honor this agreement by refusing to pay the sanctioning fees, thus not honoring the agreement he and Canelo signed. How the hell can that agreement about the winner having to fight Golovkin even be enforced when one part (Cotto) refused to honor that agreement by not paying the sanctioning fees.

When a fighter doesn’t pay the sanctioning fees (Cotto), I don’t see how the other fighter who signed the agreement to have the winner fight Golovkin (Canelo) can be held to the agreement that both fighters signed. Not only that, it is highly unusual for such an agreement to even exist as to have the winner of a fight have a mandatory. As you know, it is standard for a Champion to be given a mandatory, not for a “winner of a championship fight” to have a mandatory. Again this just all adds up to a big pile of dog crap when you talk about the wBC and the way they do business, particularly when you consider the step aside money, Cotto not honoring the agreement of the winner having to fight Golovkin as if that’s a normal thing for such an agreement to exist in the first place. (the winner of a fight having a mandatory rather than the champ being given a mandatory and having it enforced)

So I clearly explained how the WBC was working for Triple G. From the step aside money, to giving Triple G a better split, etc.


As far as you’re claim that “the fight COULD have been negotiated through back channel talks during the Khan camp” and how “Canelo/JCJr PROVES it happens” I clearly pointed out that it happening for Canelo vs JCC Jr is completely difference because as I clearly stated the WBC wasn’t involved, and it was common knowledge that DLH had already reached a verbal agreement with K2 to have the fight in Sept 2017 as far back as late 2016. It was the Triple G fans that were calling DLH a liar, only to be once again proven wrong when DLH was telling the truth.

It was a completely different situation back in early 2016 with the Khan bout, I doubt there were any negotiations between DLH and Triple, not only because as you said the agreement stated that negotiations were not to start until after the Khan bout per the WBC’s instructions. So they would be going against those so-called instructions which you then turn around and criticize Canelo for not following after the Khan bout regarding the timetable.

And you’re calling me biased for pointing out the very clear difference between having the WBC telling you when to start negotiations (after Canelo Khan) and not having the WBC telling you when to start negotiations for Canelo Chavez. What you fail to realize is that’s precisely what allowed this fight to get made, the fact that both sides didn’t have the WBC telling Canelo or Golovkin when the fight had to get made by. Don’t you see, both sides were free to negotiate whenever they wanted once the WBC was out of the picture, and lo and behold the fight became really easy to be made.

I don’t know if you ever heard the saying in business eliminating the middleman. Well simply put, eliminating a middleman sometimes makes it much easier to just deal directly with someone rather than having to deal with a 3rd party. This makes it easier to do business, and the WBC clearly created a lot of friction and tension between the two camps. One thing we know, this fight got made without the WBC breathing down the fighters next, so lets be thankful that Canelo threw the WBC to the curb and managed to make this fight, that we get to enjoy next month. The WBC is full of crap, for the reasons I’ve outlined in this post. I don’t agree with your characterization of me being incapable of criticizing Canelo. I am trying to be fair to both fighters, and I will take the side of a fighter any day before I’ll take the side of a corrupt boxing organization like the WBC that gets in the way, shows massive corruption and hypocrisy and tries to attach itself to boxing events that doesn’t even involve the WBC to try to stay relevant. It’s pathetic, a boxing organization should never pull the kind of stunts it pulled regarding Cotto, Canelo and Golovkin. If a Champion is given a mandatory, then that should be who the champion fights next. There should never be an agreement for the “winner of a fight” to be mandated to fight someone. That’s complete BS and inconsistent with how other organizations conduct it’s business. At this point thanks to Sulaiman’s shenanigans regarding Cotto Canelo and Golovkin and it’s hijacking of the MW Title, the WBC has become a rogue desperate organization and no sane boxing fan should recognize it’s legitimacy.

 

You're clearly clinging to a point that is completely irrelevent to what is being discussed. Hopkins became the Man by beating Trinidad. I doubt you'll find any fan of boxing who will argue Hopkins wasn't the Man at Middleweight. Canelo is the Lineal and Ring Magazine Middleweight Champion. You are desperately trying to put that designation into question by stating that the lineage has been broken so to speak at times in the 20th century. You're sounding like an complete idiot trying to make this argument, just stop, it's making you look really bad. Canelo is the Man who beat the Man who beat the Man . . . PERIOD. Deal with it, accept it, or continue to get schooled when it comes to talking about boxing.

 

You are clearly trying to deflect away from something that is absolutely relevant to the GGG-Canello matchup.

The Canello fanboys have long been attempting to hang his hat on this 'all important, man-who-beat-the-man-who-beat-the-man Lineal title' which history shows is absolutely nothing of the sort.

It matters not. Come September 16th GGG will simply add another belt to his collection.