Gennady Golovkin: Tell me about him

Canelo didn't run to the hills. He bided his time, then stepped up to GGG and fought him twice. GGG had his opportunity to become Lineal Champion twice aganist Canelo but failed 2X.

 

Delahoya had a press conference and or public announcement that Canelo needed 16 months to fight GGG. They finally stopped making excuses and said they just need more time to grow into the division he claimed to be linear champ of.

 

He didn't fail, the system failed him, just like Kovalev vs Ward one.

 

Was about to say the exact same thing. It really annoys me when people point to the Hearns and Duran wins and try to diminish them despite the fact they both, as you've stated, had success at mw or higher.

I get that complaint in a Spence Garcia situation, because no way in hell is Mikey gonna achieve anything significant at welter or higher, but to make it sounds as if Hearns and Duran were way too small and out of their depth is a hell of a stretch imo.

 

It wasn't anything like Kovalev Ward. Ward looked scared early on vs Kovalev, he went through some rough moments, suffered an early knockdown and after a slow and shaky start, had to work his way into the match. Canelo didn't struggle early on vs GGG like Ward did vs Kovalev, he was poised early on and had success, took the lead and it took GGG several rounds to figure out Canelo's rhythm, Kovalev didn't need any time to adjust to Ward. The only real similarity is that a lot of fans who had hyped Kovalev and GGG expected them to win, and expressed outrage over the decision. Kovalev had more of a gripe than GGG as he had a knockdown and what seemed to be a commanding lead. At one point, before Ward's comeback, it looked like Ward was out of his depths and wasn't up to the task. That was never the case with Canelo against GGG.

 

Correct.

If Duran beat Barkley in 1989 in order to win the WBC MW belt, then Marvin deserves credit for beating Duran 6 years earlier in 1983.

If Hearns went up to LHW where he beat Virgil Hill for the WBA title in 1991, then Marvin deserves credit for beating him 6 years earlier in 1985.

Those are great wins.

 

Exactly right

 

Only one who missed something is you when I asked you a simple question.
You said he was the real champion.
I will ask again-Who did he beat for the title?

 

He didn’t beat anybody for the title, as they wouldn’t fight him.

Martinez, Cotto and Canelo wouldn’t fight him.

That wasn’t his fault.

The title didn’t pass over to him through a victory in a traditional sense.

It was just circumstances.

If they wouldn’t fight him, there’s nothing that he could have done.

If they wouldn’t fight him, that speaks volumes.

After that, he became the man.

Nobody can say that he wasn’t the real MW champion.

 

You can interpret things however you like. Especially with all of the belts today.

You can just focus specifically on the WBC belt.

You can focus on who has the most belts.

You can focus on who has all of the belts.

The traditions of the sport died as soon as we had four orgs, all who have different versions of their own belts.

It’s a farce.


To me and most other people, GG was the man at MW.

Canelo had the opportunity to unify and become the undisputed MW champion, yet he relinquished his WBC belt instead.

GG was the WBA champ after Sturm wouldn’t fight him, he won the IBF against Lemieux, and then he was awarded the WBC belt after Canelo gave it up.

Now you can say that until they fought there wasn’t a true champion, but Canelo gave up the title. Not through politics. But because Oscar didn’t want the fight.

Going into the fight, GG wasn’t a contender. He had the 3 main belts. He was the man at MW.

They then fought, and it was officially classed as a draw.

GG was then still the man at MW.

IMHO, you can only claim Canelo to have been the man at MW, after he’d beaten GG in the rematch.


I don’t think many people will view things how you do.

 

Out of the 3 belts all 3 were won in bogus match ups/scenarios unworthy of championship material.
You cant be chanpion like that.
You yourself say the belts are a farce yet them bring them up to make your point.Make up your mind.
It doesnt really matter how many people agree with you-which would be interesting to see you could make a poll-they would be wrong.
Because they have no idea about how the system of a lineage works.

 

I’m not trying to be argumentative here.

It’s an interesting topic to debate.

I’m just saying that you can’t really argue with anyone who claims that GG was ‘The Man’ at MW.


You say that he can’t have been, because he didn’t beat Canelo.

Okay. But then Canelo wouldn’t fight him.


If GG wasn’t the man at MW, then who was in your opinion?

Or in your opinion, was it nobody?


Or was it Canelo for having won the WBC belt from Cotto?


You say that all 3 belts were won in bogus match ups.

No problem.

What about Canelo’s?

He won the title from a faded Cotto which was fought at a C-W.


I understand exactly where you’re coming from.

I understand the issue. But if you’ve no problem with how Canelo secured the WBC belt, you can’t really have a issue how GG obtained the others. It wasn’t his fault. It was just circumstances. Winning a belt from Lemieux sure wasn’t great, and I’m sure that GG would have loved to have fought Martinez, Sturm, Cotto and Canelo for the belts instead.

The point is: You can’t really get aggrieved at anyone for labelling GG as the man at MW, after he’d got all of the belts, after he’d made numerous title defences, as well as the fact that the best guys at the weight simply wouldn’t fight him.

I understand if you want to go on the lineage etc. But nobody forced Canelo to give up his belt. So I like many others interpreted the scenario as GG being declared ‘The Man’ at MW when Canelo gave up his belt.

If you don’t see it like that, then that’s fine. But it’s not like GG and Canelo both wanted to fight, but it was blocked by politics etc. Canelo gave the belt up.


IMHO, you shouldn’t really be arguing with anyone who holds the opinion that GG was ‘The Man’ at the weight.

Under the circumstances, there’s nothing wrong with people claiming that.

 

I think its fairly obvious From my posts that I give no importance to belts.
As you have said it s a farce.
You mentioned that IBF belt from Lemieux.He won that by beating Guerrero,how does that make you a world chsmpion in sny healthy situation?
You go by who the MAN was.
Hopkins was and lost to Taylor who lost to Pavlik who lost to Martinez who lost to Cotto who lost to Canelo.
Now as I said you can either continue to have Canelo as the champ going into the Golovkin fights or consider his january 2016 abdication case in which the throne became vacant.
Then,him and Golovkin were the top two contenders up until the direct rivalry.
Either way Golovkin was never champ.

 

I understand perfectly.

You’re looking at things from a traditional perspective.

But then was Miguel Cotto really ever ‘The Man’ at MW for beating a faded Martinez with bad knees?

Was Canelo really ever ‘The Man’ at MW for beating a faded Cotto at a C-W?

Do the circumstances matter?


You’re saying that in order to have become ‘The Man’ at MW, GG had to fight and beat Canelo. But if Canelo wouldn’t fight him and he gave up the belt, did that not change things in your eyes?

After that incident, was it not acceptable for people to claim that GG was then ‘The Man’ at MW?


Again, I’m not being argumentative.

This is a good debate, and it all depends on how you interpret things.


Again, I understand your stance clearly. But again, under the circumstances, I don’t see why you have an issue with anyone having declared GG as ‘The Man’ at MW, despite him not having fought Canelo.

Canelo gave up the right to be considered as ‘The Man’ the minute he relinquished his belt and didn’t fight.


If GG and Canelo had wanted to fight each other but weren’t able to due to other circumstances, my stance would have been this:

Neither guy could have claimed to be ‘The Man’ at the weight until they’d fought each other.

Canelo was the lineal MW champ.

GG had the other belts.

They’d have needed to have fought.


Canelo relinquishing the belts changed everything.


The two things to look at are:

1. Canelo giving up his right to be declared ‘The Man’

2. Asking yourself whether beating a non MW in a C-W superseded everything else that GG had done.


So IMHO, nobody should have an issue with anybody declaring GG as ‘The Man’ at MW, when Canelo had gone off to pursue fights with Amir Khan and Liam Smith. To me, he gave up his right to any claim, historical or otherwise.