Gennady Golovkin: Tell me about him

What does your example have to do with it?
It s a different context.
Oscar was the 154 champ then and wanted to avenge the loss so he gave Shane a title shot.

 

Then under those circumstances, it would be fair for people to class them as being something else.

 

Boxing is not fair.

 

The context is there and apt. Oscar wanting to avenge his loss has nothing to do with the situation I mentioned.

 

And if they give up their belt go to another weight class (Which is precisely what Alvarez did), they aren't the champ anymore. That's how it works.

 

What is the context?
Nobody said they were the 2 best jinior middles ehen they fought.

 

Only he didnt go in another weight class.
He took a fight in another weight class before returning to the previous one.
Like I said you can consider Canelo vacated the title.
Still doesnt make Golovkin the champion.

 

that is exactly the case. You were watching back then? I know that sounds rude, but not the intention

He didn't go to JrMW to grab Liam's belt?? You just seem to have some sort of disconnect here.

 

Yes I was.
Do you mean the ratings or boxing fans?
Yes he did.Read again what you said and what I said.
Your post seemed to suggest he moved to a new weight class.moved as in moved permanently.
I just noted he took an interim fight there before he returned to campaign at MW.
He didnt move he took 1 fight there.

 

I like m.s. but he makes up a lot of stuff that isn't true, like he constantly says GGG beat Canelo 2X as if that happened, when we all know it didn't. m.s. likes to rewrite history to cast GGG in a better light, but as far as him being considered the "real champ", I wouldn't even argue against that, after all GGG was the established MW king, and Canelo was the smaller man moving up in weight. But I would point out that catchweight or not, injury to Sergio or not, the lineage went through Canelo and the fact is that GGG was never able to beat Canelo in 2 attempts. When you say Canelo wouldn't take the fight, that's not true, even when he dropped the belt, he made it very clear that he still wanted to fight GGG and that he fight would get made.

I would also point out that one of the reasons why the Canelo Cotto match took place was because Mayweather was holding the JMW division hostage and refused to give Canelo a rematch after Canelo lost his JMW Title at a catchweight. No one at the time had any problem with Mayweather beating Canelo at 152 in a JMW unification in which both fighters had already fought at the 154-lb limit multiple times. So as far as fighting Cotto at a catchweight for the MW crown, from Canelo's perspective "if it's good for the goose it's good for the gander". A lot of title fights around that time were being contested at catchweights. Pac fought Cotto at 145, Pac fought Margarito at 150. Mayweather fought him at 152. Cotto had already fought Martinez and Geale at catchweights. There were other examples as well, it only became a joke all of a sudden when Canelo beat Cotto at a catchweight. Why wasn't Mayweather's win over Canelo seen as a joke, or Pac's win over Cotto, etc?

So Canelo was being held to a completely different standard than other fighters who won significant fights at catchweights. Notwithstanding the fact that as you mentioned Cotto refused to fight GGG, which he wasn't criticized for, but when Canelo won the title all of a sudden Canelo had to fight him whereas Cotto was allowed to duck him without being criticized. See the problem here? Lost in all of this, is that unlike Cotto, Canelo made a commitment to fight GGG, but due to multiple factors, with advice from his team, decided to drop the belt, challenge Liam Smith for his 154-lb title, because he considered that his division and before moving up he wanted to move up as a Champion at that weight class. Anotherwords, the Cotto fight he took, not for the belt, but because Cotto was the biggest name he could fight at that time, since Mayweather refused to fight him at 154-lb, the same thing in which he was being asked to do with GGG, despite never fighting at that weight limit, and that was the fight that the network wanted to see.

From GGG's perspective, he was seen as the "real champ" of the weight class, as he was fighting at the limit, had fought at that weight class his entire life, but as we pointed out, he still wasn't "officially" the man due to the lineage problem. Long story short, GGG needed Canelo as much as Canelo needed GGG. And rather than be a diva, and demand a catchweight as his promoter DLH was trying to get him to do, Canelo dropped the belt since, to your point, it would be wrong to challenge a true MW at a catchweight, even though other fighters had been doing that without criticism, Canelo was better than that, and he dropped the belt in part, to, in his mind, move up to MW "properly" with a 154-lb title belt, which he won from Liam Smith. So that was the logic, all the while still being technically the Lineal MW adding to the significance of a Canelo GGG match.

So I get where you and m.s. are coming from and I don't disagree that GGG was considered the "real champ" for obvious reasons, but in terms of Lineality, officially, he wasn't the "real champ". The whole point of the Lineal Title is to prevent a fighter from being "The Man" without proving it in the ring. Canelo was "The Man" despite how much of a joke the whole Martinez Cotto business was, and unlike Martinez and Cotto, Canelo was willing to fight GGG, but only on his timetable. He wasn't going to be pressured by a timetable by the WBC or dictated to by GGG. It was clear that the fight would happen, and it did a year later, so lets not pretend that Canelo wouldn't take the fight. It was his management team that convinced him to drop the belt, with the understanding that the fight would happen.

 

It was an unusual situation, but it's not accurate to say he lost Lineality because he moved to another weight class. His intention was made clear that he was to return to MW. This wasn't a case of the Lineal Champ outgrowing a weight class and moving up in weight with no intention of returning, as Ward did for example when he moved to 175 as SMW Lineal Champ. And when Ward did that, someone else at 168 didn't automatically become the Lineal Champ in his absence. The lineage would need to be reestablished with a #1 vs #2 matchup in said divsion, which never occurred. By Canelo declaring his intention to compete at MW after fighting Liam Smith, the Lineage could not have been reestablished with the Lineal Champ's intention to compete in that weight class made clear.

 

Golovkin definitely beat Canelo twice. I saw it happen.

 

No, sorry, that never happened. Only in your imaginary world.

 

Bud, do you have any idea how disgustingly broken and effeminate you come across with your wall-of-text replies? It’s not just that you reply to every Clenelo thread this way, it’s that you reply to every post in every thread this way
Beneath the cringeworthy, childish, spastic Alvarez worship I feel a manic sense of despair and it breaks my heart for you. There’s nothing wrong with being a huge fan of someone or something, and Clenelo is certainly one of the great ones of boxing in the last 10-15 years, but you degrade yourself and Clenelo with your tomfoolery. Not to mention that it’s a girl-repellent. Seriously shadow, you need to find a cute young lady but you never will in your current state. Start doing push ups and sit ups in your living room, try building a ship-in-a-bottle to relieve your OCD in a healthy way and ask God into your heart for help. You’ll be better for it and so will society.

 

Do you have any idea how disgustingly broken and effeminate it comes across reading GGG fans constantly crying about what Canelo did to GGG. Pretending that GGG won. I do appreciate the advice but I think you need to focus on the source of the problem : the GGG excuse making and the need to rewrite history. Let what happened stand on its own two feet, rather than complain and play pretend about what happened. The insecurity on display from GGG fans who refuse to accept what happened, my exposure of that shouldn't trigger you unless you also are in denial of what happened. Accept what happened, be a man about it. That's how you earn respect.