Gennady Golovkin vs Sergiy Derevyanchenko is set for October 5th

BCS8 · Aug 17, 2019

shadow111 said: ↑

GGG's output in the first fight wasn't as a result of high level skill though. After getting schooled early on in the first fight, he did start landing more and his toughness and relentlessness has not been ignored by me. But it wasn't clinical. He wasn't landing clean, a lot of his connects were glancing shots that Canelo was mostly slipping. You know this. What Canelo was doing to GGG early on was clinical, he was giving him a boxing lesson. And in fairness GGG gave Canelo a boxing lesson in rounds like 1, 4, 10 and 12 in the rematch, but in the other rounds GGG was just getting beat up. GGG wasn't able to sustain his boxing off the backfoot continuously and successfully round after round like Canelo did in rounds 1-5 of the first fight. It was only a round here, a round there, but in the first fight until the end of round 5 it was a continuous schooling by Canelo. That's the difference.
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The same ol Shadow spin

DynamicMoves · Aug 18, 2019

shadow111 said: ↑

Canelo won 3 rounds, 4 rounds and 6 rounds vs Mayweather on the judges scorecards. That's an average of 4.33 rounds won. Scoring it 119-109 is 2 rounds outside of the judge who had it widest to Floyd. My argument isn't that Canelo put on a clinic vs Mayweather, it's that he put on a feinting clinic vs Mayweather. Mayweather literally flinched 35 times to Canelo feints, many of them hard flinches. I counted them. To Flinch 35 times in a single fight is unheard of, and about 20 of those feints happened in the first 3 rounds ! That's otherworldly. But to your point, feints by themselves don't score and generally don't win you rounds. However given how many times Mayweather bit on Canelo feints, that goes against the argument that it was a Mayweather clinic.

I'll try to break this down for you and explain why Canelo GGG 1 was a clinic and why Mayweather Canelo wasn't. Watch the first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo and compare that to the first 6 rounds of Canelo GGG 1. The first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo were dead even. Each of those first 6 rounds were extremely close. There was no schooling by Mayweather, no clinic by Mayweather. Mayweather was in a chess match with Canelo. It was back and forth OK? Now starting in round 7 Mayweather started to take over. He had a big round 7 and had nice rounds 8 and 9. In those 3 rounds Mayweather was putting on a bit of a clinic. Then in round 10 Mayweather was doing good but Canelo came back in the 2nd half of the 10th. Then in the 11th Mayweather had another big round. The 12th was very low output but was arguably a Canelo round.

In rounds 7-9 and round 11 you could say that Mayweather was putting on a bit of a clinic. But NOT in the first 6 rounds, and not in round 10 and 12.

In Canelo GGG 1, unlike Mayweather Canelo which started very close with toss up rounds, Canelo was putting on a literal clinic early on. GGG was like a fish out of water in those early rounds. Round 1 was a feel out round, but Canelo clearly won rounds 2 and 3 and was in fact putting on an outboxing clinic. It wasn't until the end of round 5 that GGG landed anything of note. For the first 4 and a half rounds Canelo was putting on a clinic. But then GGG started to get into the fight, he started landing more, and at that point it was no longer a Canelo clinic like it was early on. Still Canelo was setting traps like in round 8 with that uppercut but it was no longer a clinic. The last 3 rounds weren't a Canelo clinic either, it became a firefight. Canelo won those later rounds imho but it wasn't clinic. It became a bit of a war.

But in those first 4 and a half rounds it was absoutely a Canelo clinic. The way he was outboxing GGG he was making it look so easy, how he laid back on the ropes in round 4 and 5 and was pretty much toying with GGG, it was clinical. But then GGG made some adjustments started to close the distance and it no longer was a Canelo clinic. It became a very close fight. But it was a clinic early on. Mayweather Canelo on the other hand wasn't a clinic becuase Mayweather needed to make adjustments and it took him 6 rounds to figure Canelo out. When you're putting on a clinic it doesn't take you any time to figure a guy out. Generally from the opening bell you can tell it's a clinic. If you watch those first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo it was dead even. Mayweather was flinching out of his mind, and it was a learning experience for both men.

But then starting in round 7 Floyd started to take over then Mayweather started to school Canelo a bit, but it took him a long time to get to that point. Canelo came right out of the gate and started schooling GGG. It took GGG about 4 or 5 rounds to put an end to that clinic. Now look we all see things differently, and it would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything in boxing. I know some people think Floyd dominated Canelo and some people think GGG beat Canelo. That doesn't change what actually happened and what was a clinic. Neither Floyd Canelo or Canelo GGG 1 was a clinic start to finish. They were both close fights, however portions of each fights did look like clinics. Canelo gave Floyd a schooling on feints. (he did, you cannot deny that) Floyd gave Canelo a schooling in rounds 7-9 and round 11 in making him miss and landing some good shots. (it happened, I can't deny it) Canelo gave GGG a schooling in rounds 1-5 of the first fight when it comes to ring generalship and fighting off the backfoot. And even in rounds that he lost like round 8 he still was setting traps and landing big shots which were clinical. And I'll admit, in the rematch after GGG got beat up by Canelo over the first 8 rounds, in rounds 10 and 12 GGG had some nice moments, schooling moments. Also in rounds 1 and 4 GGG showcased some nice boxing manuevers, I can't deny that and I can't take that away from GGG. But it just wasn't sustained for long enough to be conisdered a clinic imho. In rounds 1-5 int he first fight Canelo was making it look easy and over that period of time Canelo was absolutely putting on a clinic. GGG put a stop to the clinic though by closing the distance and outworking him in the middle rounds which made it a close and fascinating match. That's what happened.
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Your opening argument hinges on the Judges from Canelo vs Floyd, when we all know those are bull. Floyd easily won that, a MD is ridiculous.

Second, you say rounds 1-5, Canelo easily won. At the very least GGG won rounds 4 and 5.

This is a 1000 word essay but it's garbage.

Rilz said: ↑

So to be clear, thos is a GGG vs Derevyanchenko correct? Sure seems like it is a Canelo thread.

I have only seen Deryanchenko fight 2 times, and he seems like a very live body in there. If GGG is complacent or gets old overnight it could be a tough evening.
If a top form GGG shows up he wins within the distance.
I know that styles make fights, but the Jacobs fight was very tough for both of these guys, Deveryanchenko belongs in the top tier discussion at 160.

My prediction is GGG KO rounds 8-10.
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Every GGG thread becomes a Canelo thread because of guys like Isal and Shadow.

I like GGG but I haven't seen a lot of Deveryanchenko, guess it's time to go back and watch some of his fights.

shadow111 · Aug 18, 2019

DynamicMoves said: ↑

Your opening argument hinges on the Judges from Canelo vs Floyd, when we all know those are bull. Floyd easily won that, a MD is ridiculous.
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It's not an argument. I'm stating facts. That's how the judges had it, and it was a Mayweather promoted event in Mayweather's hometown with DLH in rehab, so if anyone got favorable judging there it was Floyd. Mayweather fanboys and Canelo haters routinely try to move the goalposts in regards to this match, acting like 119-109 or a complete Floyd shutout are somehow a reality based view of the fight. It's complete bollocks.

Dave Moretti scored Mayweather Canelo 116-112 8 rounds to 4. Though I didn't agree with some of his rounds, like giving Floyd the 4th and giving Canelo the 11th, it was still a fair score overall imo. (he gave the 2nd, the 6th and the 10th to Floyd rounds that were close and could have gone to Canelo, but that's what happens when you fight Floyd in Vegas) I didn't agree with Ross's card I've stated this several times. Giving the 1st, 8th and 11th to Canelo was wrong imho, but likewise giving the 4th and 10th to Floyd was also wrong. Somewhere in the ballpark of 117-111 Floyd to 115-113 Floyd is justifiable. It's hard to justify a draw, but there were only a couple of rounds that Floyd won clearly. The rest are debatable if you are unbiased. It's fantasyland to believe that Floyd easily won that. He had to reach down deep and make all kinds of adjustments to eek that one out. The first 6 rounds were some of the closest most difficult rounds Floyd has ever been in. It also doesn't make sense logically to believe that Floyd dominated a guy like Canelo who's been at the top of the sport for years and hasn't been beat by anyone else.

DynamicMoves said: ↑

Second, you say rounds 1-5, Canelo easily won. At the very least GGG won rounds 4 and 5.
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I didn't say he easily won them. Rounds 4 and 5 were close. I said he was putting on a clinic for 4 and a half rounds. GGG did a little better in the 4th but Canelo was still teaching him a boxing lesson and landed the better shots. All 3 judges giving that round to GGG is bull. GGG finished the 5th strong and made it a dogfight from that point on. Before that final minute of the 5th Canelo was putting on a clinic. If you don't like hearing that, that's your issue but it doesn't change what happened.

shadow111 · Aug 18, 2019

BCS8 said: ↑

The same ol Shadow spin
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Why don't you make more of an effort to meet me halfway on some of this stuff? I obviously put a lot of thought into that break down and really the purpose is to generate intelligent discussion. I don't expect you to agree with everything I said there, but surely there are some parts of it that you can agree with. There are areas where Canelo and GGG fans can agree on. I made an effort to give GGG credit where it is due, and I admitted he did well in rounds 1, 4, 10 and 12 in the rematch rounds I gave him.

I'd appreciate more of a "hey shadow great points there, good of you to admit where GGG did good". I don't see that kind of stuff from you or other GGG fans and there needs to be more of it.

iii · Aug 18, 2019

DynamicMoves said: ↑

Your opening argument hinges on the Judges from Canelo vs Floyd, when we all know those are bull. Floyd easily won that, a MD is ridiculous.

Second, you say rounds 1-5, Canelo easily won. At the very least GGG won rounds 4 and 5.

This is a 1000 word essay but it's garbage.

Every GGG thread becomes a Canelo thread because of guys like Isal and Shadow.

I like GGG but I haven't seen a lot of Deveryanchenko, guess it's time to go back and watch some of his fights.
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ss you say "This is a 1000 word essay but it's garbage. " is Shadow of a real mans bread N butter rinse repeat ****ing BS Guff,usually backed by Jnr troll girlie iSAL

DynamicMoves · Aug 18, 2019

shadow111 said: ↑

It's not an argument. I'm stating facts. That's how the judges had it, and it was a Mayweather promoted event in Mayweather's hometown with DLH in rehab, so if anyone got favorable judging there it was Floyd. Mayweather fanboys and Canelo haters routinely try to move the goalposts in regards to this match, acting like 119-109 or a complete Floyd shutout are somehow a reality based view of the fight. It's complete bollocks.

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shadow111 said: ↑

GGG did a little better in the 4th but Canelo was still teaching him a boxing lesson and landed the better shots. All 3 judges giving that round to GGG is bull.
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K.

ideafix12 · Aug 18, 2019

GGG 2 CANELO 0

BCS8 · Aug 19, 2019

shadow111 said: ↑

I'd appreciate more of a "hey shadow great points there, good of you to admit where GGG did good". I don't see that kind of stuff from you or other GGG fans and there needs to be more of it.
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It's simple, Canelo got well outlanded in the first fight, he gave way and got trapped on the ropes and managed a few flashy flurries in the main. He got controlled, and outboxed. Critics of Golovkin's performance after the first fight were all about "yeah but he made G miss, he landed the better punches and the more eye-catching combinations." In the second fight GGG fought off the backfoot, made Canelo miss wildly and landed by far the harder punches and combinations (as well as outlanding Canelo again) ... and suddenly all the stuff that was soooo important in the first fight hardly gets a passing remark from the Canelistas. It's a kind of a double standard that leads nowhere.

FastSmith7 · Aug 19, 2019

What a fighter, 41-0

Chuck Norris · Aug 19, 2019

This content is protected

northpaw · Aug 19, 2019

Very disappointing that this thread has been hijacked by discussions of Mayweather/Canelo and Golovkin/Canelo. There are more appropriate threads to discuss those on.

*Re-routes

Very good fight but if Golovkin is at least still at the same level as he was for Canelo II, I say Golovkin wins a decision. Golovkin could win this on the strength of his jab alone. Don't know how much more Banks is gonna "tinker" with his style though.

iii · Aug 19, 2019

shadow111 said: ↑

Canelo won 3 rounds, 4 rounds and 6 rounds vs Mayweather on the judges scorecards. That's an average of 4.33 rounds won. Scoring it 119-109 is 2 rounds outside of the judge who had it widest to Floyd. My argument isn't that Canelo put on a clinic vs Mayweather, it's that he put on a feinting clinic vs Mayweather. Mayweather literally flinched 35 times to Canelo feints, many of them hard flinches. I counted them. To Flinch 35 times in a single fight is unheard of, and about 20 of those feints happened in the first 3 rounds ! That's otherworldly. But to your point, feints by themselves don't score and generally don't win you rounds. However given how many times Mayweather bit on Canelo feints, that goes against the argument that it was a Mayweather clinic.

I'll try to break this down for you and explain why Canelo GGG 1 was a clinic and why Mayweather Canelo wasn't. Watch the first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo and compare that to the first 6 rounds of Canelo GGG 1. The first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo were dead even. Each of those first 6 rounds were extremely close. There was no schooling by Mayweather, no clinic by Mayweather. Mayweather was in a chess match with Canelo. It was back and forth OK? Now starting in round 7 Mayweather started to take over. He had a big round 7 and had nice rounds 8 and 9. In those 3 rounds Mayweather was putting on a bit of a clinic. Then in round 10 Mayweather was doing good but Canelo came back in the 2nd half of the 10th. Then in the 11th Mayweather had another big round. The 12th was very low output but was arguably a Canelo round.

In rounds 7-9 and round 11 you could say that Mayweather was putting on a bit of a clinic. But NOT in the first 6 rounds, and not in round 10 and 12.

In Canelo GGG 1, unlike Mayweather Canelo which started very close with toss up rounds, Canelo was putting on a literal clinic early on. GGG was like a fish out of water in those early rounds. Round 1 was a feel out round, but Canelo clearly won rounds 2 and 3 and was in fact putting on an outboxing clinic. It wasn't until the end of round 5 that GGG landed anything of note. For the first 4 and a half rounds Canelo was putting on a clinic. But then GGG started to get into the fight, he started landing more, and at that point it was no longer a Canelo clinic like it was early on. Still Canelo was setting traps like in round 8 with that uppercut but it was no longer a clinic. The last 3 rounds weren't a Canelo clinic either, it became a firefight. Canelo won those later rounds imho but it wasn't clinic. It became a bit of a war.

But in those first 4 and a half rounds it was absoutely a Canelo clinic. The way he was outboxing GGG he was making it look so easy, how he laid back on the ropes in round 4 and 5 and was pretty much toying with GGG, it was clinical. But then GGG made some adjustments started to close the distance and it no longer was a Canelo clinic. It became a very close fight. But it was a clinic early on. Mayweather Canelo on the other hand wasn't a clinic becuase Mayweather needed to make adjustments and it took him 6 rounds to figure Canelo out. When you're putting on a clinic it doesn't take you any time to figure a guy out. Generally from the opening bell you can tell it's a clinic. If you watch those first 6 rounds of Mayweather Canelo it was dead even. Mayweather was flinching out of his mind, and it was a learning experience for both men.

But then starting in round 7 Floyd started to take over then Mayweather started to school Canelo a bit, but it took him a long time to get to that point. Canelo came right out of the gate and started schooling GGG. It took GGG about 4 or 5 rounds to put an end to that clinic. Now look we all see things differently, and it would be a boring place if we all agreed on everything in boxing. I know some people think Floyd dominated Canelo and some people think GGG beat Canelo. That doesn't change what actually happened and what was a clinic. Neither Floyd Canelo or Canelo GGG 1 was a clinic start to finish. They were both close fights, however portions of each fights did look like clinics. Canelo gave Floyd a schooling on feints. (he did, you cannot deny that) Floyd gave Canelo a schooling in rounds 7-9 and round 11 in making him miss and landing some good shots. (it happened, I can't deny it) Canelo gave GGG a schooling in rounds 1-5 of the first fight when it comes to ring generalship and fighting off the backfoot. And even in rounds that he lost like round 8 he still was setting traps and landing big shots which were clinical. And I'll admit, in the rematch after GGG got beat up by Canelo over the first 8 rounds, in rounds 10 and 12 GGG had some nice moments, schooling moments. Also in rounds 1 and 4 GGG showcased some nice boxing manuevers, I can't deny that and I can't take that away from GGG. But it just wasn't sustained for long enough to be conisdered a clinic imho. In rounds 1-5 int he first fight Canelo was making it look easy and over that period of time Canelo was absolutely putting on a clinic. GGG put a stop to the clinic though by closing the distance and outworking him in the middle rounds which made it a close and fascinating match. That's what happened.
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Drivel & fantasy....obviously a Trump voter...

GK BOX · Aug 19, 2019

Worthless tread

IsaL · Aug 19, 2019

BCS8 said: ↑

It's simple, Canelo got well outlanded in the first fight, he gave way and got trapped on the ropes and managed a few flashy flurries in the main. He got controlled, and outboxed. Critics of Golovkin's performance after the first fight were all about "yeah but he made G miss, he landed the better punches and the more eye-catching combinations." In the second fight GGG fought off the backfoot, made Canelo miss wildly and landed by far the harder punches and combinations (as well as outlanding Canelo again) ... and suddenly all the stuff that was soooo important in the first fight hardly gets a passing remark from the Canelistas. It's a kind of a double standard that leads nowhere.
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Gennady literally landed an average of 2.5 more jabs per round.

shadow111 · Aug 19, 2019

BCS8 said: ↑

In the second fight GGG fought off the backfoot, made Canelo miss wildly and landed by far the harder punches and combinations (as well as outlanding Canelo again) ... and suddenly all the stuff that was soooo important in the first fight hardly gets a passing remark from the Canelistas. It's a kind of a double standard that leads nowhere.
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GGG "landed by far the harder punches and combinations" in the rematch ? You're kidding yourself with statements like that. He landed more jabs, but Canelo clearly landed the harder more significant punches. I gave GGG credit where it was due, he won rounds 1,4,10 and 12 in the rematch imho. The problem for you is the other 8 rounds where he was getting tagged and beat up.

As to the first fight, Canelo didn't get trapped on the ropes, he went there voluntarily to prove a point. You're generalizing too much, GGG controlled rounds like 7-9 but Canelo was the one controlling rounds like 1-4 and the first half of the 5th. GGG then stepped it up and got more into the fight. Neither guy was in complete control throughout, both fights were like a tug of war, one guy had control for a while then it switched to the other. I'm trying to pinpoint which portions of the fight each guy did well in.

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