Gennady Golovkin vs Sugar Ray Robinson but welter version

Again, that's an unfounded presumption.

Kovalev was 189 in shape, in the ring, strong as an ox, against Pascal. If he can cut to 175 safely for the weigh in and be 189 in the ring the next night, I would say Maricano could if he really wanted to.

That doesn't seem to correlate with anything I said.

It's down to an art form and has been for a very long time now. Almost every non-heavyweight fighter on average is gaining 10 to 15 pounds on 24 hour turnarounds without any proven ill effects. Now once you go to 20 plus pounds, you start to see mixed results depending on the fighter and their age.

Well, you have to ask yourself why guys like Cintron and now... Brook and Spence were/are training so hard to be big welters when they could compete as average middleweights like Golovkin. Well Brook/Golovkin kind of answered that question, they may have been the same size but the power/durability difference was significant.

 

Great discussion. Very informative and thought provoking from all sides

 

Who told you that , Cobra? You're arguing with a fool who claimed Brook and Canelo are bigger fighters than Golovkin.
A guy who calls Jacobs a cruiser weight , which means he put on 40 pounds over night.. 40 POUNDS!!!

Jacobs has been around a long time and nobody ever claimed he was a natural LHW/Cruiser until he ran GGG to the brink of defeat. Only when Golovkin got exposed did this nonsense get thrown out by his fanboys.
Jacobs has has height but is a string bean - stick legs , slim torso , pigeon chest. He's a natural MW.

And Kellerman has said Canelo never came in over 180 pound.

 

You keep falsely coming to the conclusion that it is an unfounded presumption. It's honestly starting to get really annoying because it is blatantly false. You know its false.

Kovalev himself said he walks around at 190 so again you are proven wrong. [url]http://www.boxing[/url] scene.com/sergey-kovalev-i-still-get-wbc-title--84256 "Cruiserweight is a very big weight. I walk around at 190."

I said that they get a fraction of the strength back compared to someone who never dehydrated. You called that "an unfounded presumption based upon an unfounded presumption" pretty much your go to line when you have no argument.

That's an unfounded presumption.

That's ducking the question.

 

What we really need is an indication of whether rehydrating reasonable amounts really does kill performance. I know that extreme dehydrating / rehydrating does, but seems to me that fighters that don't go overboard with water loss are OK.

 

I don't know it's false because there is no data to draw from to prove or disprove that. That's what I mean by unfounded presumption.

How am I wrong? It's a fact he weighed in at 189 for Pascal I in 2015. And he was 188 against Hopkins in 2014. It's right there on the broadcasts.

Now you put words in his mouth regarding that quote. He didn't actually say, he was out of shape at 190.

I answered the question. I said for any of these fighters drying out 20+ pounds, they are doing it to fight smaller men for a reason. They don't believe they have the power or durability to fight men their own size or larger. So I would be hesitant to favor them, depending on the match up.

 

Exactly, there is nothing to really go on with that claim.

We know once we get into the 20+ pound dry outs, there are mixed results, we've seen that. But if you are going to claim that just sweating out 10-15 pounds leaves everyone with a fraction of their power on fight night, you need to have something to back that claim up.

 

Ok course. Take for example a middleweight who rehydrates to 175. They would generally have a strength edge over a 160 fighter that doesn't dehydrate but they would be at a disadvantage compared to a 175 lbr that doesn't dehydrate.

That's what I am saying.

 

I think we should just agree to disagree. It's abundantly clear that neither of us are going to change our minds.

 

That's not what I am saying at all. Not even close.

What I am saying is a 175 lbr (just a random weight) that dehydrates to make 160 won't be as strong as a 175 lbr who doesn't dehydrate to make 175.

 

Fair enough but I still don't see a basis for that conclusion.

Lemieux is a 175 pound fighter that drys out at 160. His power looks absolutely devastating.

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He has naturally heavy hands I'm sure and like you said, dehydrating 10-15 lbs isn't going to negatively effect a fighters performance but if we put Lemieux in with the light heavyweights of past eras he probably wouldn't come up as big of a puncher.

 

i was an infant when he died, so no, fail, no way he said that joke.

lets keep waiting then

 

As you know....the joke is applicable across the board...as necessary.

 

No one ever forgets SRR's "perfect left hook" on prime Gene Fullmer's chin, even though SRR was an"old" MW by then.