George Carpentier vs. James Scott

Georges gave this description of the contest:

“I almost flew from my corner when the gong went, and at once drove a left hand to the champion’s unshaven face. It was a blow that had much weight in it, the kind of blow by which I had brought stars into the eyes of Beckett. But, to my amazement, Dempsey no more than sniffed. Dempsey rather than retreating as I expected, came after me like some bear who had been stung. I shot out three straight lefts that landed in the neighborhood of his snub nose. But it was like pouring water on a duck’s back. He crashed his way to close quarters, and with his right, left me doubtful whether he had smashed my ribs.

“Then as I ducked and dodged to escape the full force of his onslaught he hit me on the top of the head, and for a moment I feared that my spine had been broken. Why I did not go down and out under the awful force of that blow I shall never be able to explain. To me Dempsey was as some monster, and I now readily make the confession that it was only instinct that helped me to continue. I did not lose my fighting wits. I could see and think straight and I managed to hit him with my right to his jaw.

“Dempsey, however, merely shook his black head, and by his clever footwork he left me to beat the air, and pinning me with my back to the ropes he drove sledge-hammer blows to my body, to knock me almost through the ropes. Only the bell saved me.

“DesCamps, Gus Wilson, and Charlie Ledoux worked upon me so furiously that I felt I was near to normal when I set out to begin the second round. Feinting with my left, I smashed my right hand full to Dempsey’s jaw, shaking him from head to foot. His long arms, as he stood with his back to the ropes, hung loosely about his hips, he rocked and swayed as will a man who is tottering to defeat. There he was, inviting to be knocked out. Joe Benjamin, one of his seconds, shrieked, “Grab him, Jack!” Kearns (Dempsey’s manager) reached for smelling salts.

“A hundred thousand people jumped to their feet expecting to see the champion dethroned, but I missed the greatest opportunity of my life. In trying a second right-hander, I missed the swaying chin of Dempsey, and he clutched and hugged me tight, so that I was helpless to complete the work I had begun. Dempsey at the end of that round went to his corner without showing traces of the greatest blow I have ever delivered. My reaction was terrible. Not only that, but I had broken a bone in my right hand."

‘Francois,’ I confided to DesCamps, ‘It is impossible. This Dempsey is invincible.’ The champion, so untroubled did he seem to be as he entered upon the third round might never have been in a fight. At once he came after me, and by his colossal strength insisted that the fight should be at close quarters. How he rattled and nearly caved in my ribs. He pounded me with right and left uppercuts, but I refused to believe that I could be beaten. The crowd screamed ‘Dempsey!’ So great was the uproar that it was almost impossible to hear the signal for the end of the round.

“I was terribly conscious as I sat in my corner, that my doom was sealed. My right hand was useless; my face was cut and bruised. My sides ached so that I suffered excruciating pain; my head swam. DesCamps, as he splashed me over with ice-water, cried ‘You will win mon cheri, two more rounds finis!’ He knew he lied for there was Dempsey as fresh as paint.

“How sick and weary I was when I went into the third round it is beyond me to say. Not even the merciless thrashing that I took from Frank Klaus and Billy Papke before the war left me in such a woeful condition. And yet, with the hope born of desperation that I might turn the tide, I held to my heart. I pumped new life into my weary legs, and sought to make every use of the ring, so that I might lure Dempsey into a false position and with my left- my only hand- do damage.

“But whatever I did was all in vain. He fooled me so it seemed, to a given spot, and punished me almost to the point of senselessness. But I would not give in easily. I said to myself, ‘will I be beaten when I am left all stretched out.’ My determination helped me survive the third round. It was as much as I could do to scramble to my feet to begin the fourth and what proved to be the last round. I was left with little of my strength. I was but a shell of my real self.

“Dempsey at once forced me to the ropes, but though I dodged his right hand, he ripped his left into my body. One, two, three, four blows he rammed into my almost broken ribs and down I went doubled up. How I managed it I shall never be able to tell, but at the count of nine I pulled myself to my feet. Now, however, it was child’s play for Dempsey. With a right-hander he sent me to the floor of the ring, and though I had not been robbed of my mental faculties, and would have fought on, it was impossible for me to rise.”

 

Joe Jennette is not overrated then or now

 

Have a look at post #19 for a copy of the Boxing (Boxing News) report of the fight.

http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=459221&page=2

 

Yeah, just rewatched it. It was a series of rights with one left hook in there.

Jack sure had a problem with right hands punchers.

 

[Joe Jennette was very ill from cutting weight...didn't train days before match]

In order to get the bout with the Frenchman Joe had to weigh-in within several pounds of Carpentier and $1,000 forfeit money was posted. Jeannette had to dry out for a week before the bout came off and his only meal each day was three glasses of tomato juice. When he entered the ring he was too finely drawn and his skin dried out, and although badly weakened managed to win the decision easily. However, soon after, his hair began to fall out and in a few months he was almost bald.


[The articles governing the match stipulate that Joe Jennette must not weigh more than 187 pounds, ringside, but it is believed he will have to forfeit $1,000 for overweight. Carpentier will not weigh more than 168 pounds.]


Leon See, a huge Carpentier supporter, wrote:

In my opinion Carpentier had merited the decision... Jeannette from the beginning of the meeting had sought to exhaust his opponent by infighting with body blows and uppercuts to the chin. During the first round Carpentier was being dominated by the mulatto... when suddenly... Carpentier lands a wonderful right hook and Jeannette went to the ground... It was a moment of mad excitement in the room and one could already foresee the French victory by K.O. but, in the second round, the smiling Jeannette resumed his work and anxiety came back strong in their hearts. Would Carpentier get exhausted from the infighting? Holding the hard shots to the pit of the stomach of a man who, in the ring must have weighed over 186 pounds? Once again Carpentier was up to the task in front of him, he immediately adapted to the circumstances, accepting to confront Jeannette’s tactics... Holding his head against the mulatto he began infighting and dominated the body blows ten to one.

Carpentier finished with a bloody, swollen face, but it was by far his prettiest work to date. He descended on Jeannette in the first round and was shaken repeatedly by perfect classic left hooks and finally he succeeded, in the end to take advantage of the infighting, to penetrate the inside of his opponent. And this is what is called a victory.

It was argued that Carpentier finished the fight completely exhausted, while his opponent was still very fresh. ‘Carpentier could not do one more round,’ said many spectators. That argument is absolutely worthless. The fight was over 15 rounds not 16 or 20; Carpentier gave his full effort over the fifteen rounds, if the meeting had been longer, he would have conserved his energy and would have ended well.

The decision of ‘Jeannette winner’ was greeted with amazement by all in attendance. The referee once more was not clearly involved and showed his inexperience. It is really unfortunate that even today, after the excellent results achieved by the application of the three judge system, we continue to organize fights with a single arbitrator... It is permissible to say that if the Carpentier-Jeannette match had been arbitrated by three judges, the champion of Europe would have been declared the winner.

“I admit that Carpentier surprised me. I went into this fight as one that I could easily control as I could not believe a fighter weighing a dozen kilos or less could stay in a fight with me. I didn’t think the battle would take more than seven or eight rounds. Carpentier strikes extremely hard and holds a better punch than I thought. For his age, he is actually amazing. My tactic first of all was to exhaust him with blows to the body but he had remarkably adapted to my game. I then tried to pressure him at close range with uppercuts but he negated my shots by deftly placing his arm in the right location. Carpentier is very dangerous and he is a man who can beat the best.”

Gus Wilson worked Jennette's corner for the Carpentier bout. Wilson relayed acomical story about the fight: “Jeannette settled down in a little cottage with his wife in a Paris suburb and trained hard for the match. He was a very fine man and devoted to his little lady, who couldn’t do any of the housework while Joe was around. He’d just take the mop, or whatever she was using, away from her and do it himself. I have reason for mentioning this.

“Well just before the fight I gave Joe his instructions. Only one thing, I told him to keep his guard high. ‘Don’t give him a clean shot at your chin with his right,’ I said, ‘and you have nothing to worry about.’ Joe nodded, the bell rang, and he shuffled out. I leaned down to put the water bottle under my stool. When I looked up, there was Jeannette, flat on his back. A right hand.

“Joe struggled up at nine. With more experience, Carpentier would have finished him right there. But Georges came in wildly, throwing right hands all over the place. For an interminable period of three or four rounds, Jeannette took a fearful beating. But sheer instinct kept him bobbing just enough to spoil Carpentier’s aim. Joe was still out between the fourth and fifth rounds. He said, ‘Let me take that broom, Baby.’ He thought he was home sweeping the kitchen.”

 

Definately best Euro HW for a time, or at least I cant think of one Id pick against him, but I dont think at that time that says a lot. IMO his wins over Beckett were probably his best Euro HW wins but go back and watch those and tell me they dont look suspicious either.

 

Carpentiers best win was the brutal puncher Ledoux.

 

He wasn't great, but he was unequivocally one of the best heavyweight contenders of the era.

That makes him a pretty darn good scalp for a middleweight!

 

I doubt I would rate him in the top ten HW contenders for the era. Either the teens or the 20s and which MW are you referring to? Because when guys like Papke and Klaus handed him his ass he was a year away from being considered a euro contender at HW and only got that ranking by KOing the glass jawed Billy Wells who himself was probably the most overrated and underqualified HW of the era (I say this based on how he was rated at home, most in the states considered him a joke and rightly so).

 

i thought you meant carpentier. not smith. carps victory over smith was about as hollow as it gets. you dont have to gloss over the jeneatte fight because carp didnt win that fight. Even if Smith was a legit and convincing win, which it wasnt, smith was never unbeatable at any stage of his career and carpentier was fighting in the high 160s and low 170s at this point. hardly the 158 lb MW you paint him as and hardly a victory to laud on your resume as you indicate. In reality Carpentier garnered that "victory" by rolling around on the canvas cradling his head in his hands and generally turning in an acting job that nobody, including the referee (who still ruled for carp on flimsy technicality) believed.

 

I will grant you that I have only read two contemporary accounts of Smith Carpintier, but they did not lead me to think that the fight was not on the level.

What could you offer up to change my mind on this?

 

Im not saying the fight itself wasnt on the level but the decision was goofy at best and possibly criminal. In the final round Smith hit Carpentier with a punch and Carpentier went down to his knees. Carpentier always dipped up and down so Smith thought he was just bobbing and fired off another punch. At the last moment realized that Carpentier was actually down and pulled the punch. Accounts differ as to whether it actually landed or not but even those that state it landed said it did no damage and at worst grazed the top of his head or hair. Carpentier immediately started rolling around on the canvas, holding his head in his hands as if hed been hit with an axe and trying to milk sympathy. Descamps rushed into the ring (a DQ foul) and started yelling at Corri (the referee). Corri DQd Smith despite admitting that the punch did no damage and remarkably that it was accidental. He tried to cover himself by saying that even though it did no damage and was an accident it was still a foul and under the strictest interpretation of the rules Smith had to be DQd (thats debateable at best). When countered with the fact that Descamps had jumped into the ring which should have resulted in Carp being DQd he said his back was turned and he did not see Descamps jump into the ring until after he had DQd Smith or he would have DQd Carpentier. Later on when the films were shown of the fight everyone agreed that it was a bad decision by the ref and that Smith's actions were not worthy of a DQ and that the punch did no damage to Carpentier. If that isnt an unconvincing, controversial mess of a win for Carpentier I dont know what is.

 

Perhaps another interpretation would be that Carpintier was frustrating Smith, and Smith just did something silly?

Do you feel that Smith was winning at the time of the stoppage?

 

Smith had just knocked Carpentier down. Its hard to spin that as him being fouling on purpose because he was frustrated. Besides, nobody else on the ground agreed with such an assessment. Whatever, if you like Carpentier so be it if you want to play devils advocate every time something curious or controversial about his career arises youll be a busy guy but the bottom line is the guy was all fluff and very little substance.