Top 10 P4P Puerto Rican Pugilists...

Pedro Montanez was the first omission I thought of as well. But damn good list, George.

 

Jose Torres?
Pedro Montanez?

 

Nice. Interesting to see the usual incumbent (Gomez) relegated to #3 here, a bold choice. I personally have him at #1 there, but the list of scalps on Ortiz's list is kind of impressive and at least gives me pause in my reasoning. I usually have that trio as Gomez, Ortiz, Benitez.

 

Nice work George. A good read and a good list.

I think Ortiz is the clear number 1 both resume and H2H for his weight (Gomez has the case, but 122's depth is a drop in the sea compared to 135), and Gomez has a case to actually be lower (depending on how you rank).

And I do think Escobar shouldve been considered. Just me.

 

Ivan Calderon is definitely a consideration for a top 10 spot, I'd say. JuanMa Lopez on the other hand? No chance.

 

There is no way Juan Manuel Lopez deserves to be in the top 10 - he shouldn't even be a consideration. He'd be lucky to crack the top 25.

 

Good list, George. There's nothing in here I'd wildly disagree with and you got the top 4 fighters right, regardless of any arguments about the order.

 

True enough. There is some margin between the two as to how emphatically they would win their fights, but it's true I suppose that has everything in the world to do with quality of opposition. Ortiz was more workmanlike and patient, content to take a decision if he had to (losing a couple along the way), whereas Gomez felt it almost an affront to let a fight go that long. And Gomez, for the relative dearth of his competition, did step up big against the likes of Zarate and Pintor.

I dunno, guess I could see it either way.

 

I think Ortiz overall has to be the #1 but I think a lot of people lean towards Gomez due to the fashion of his wins and his style. He looks like a better fighter at their respective bests. Gomez does have some great wins but Ortiz took on and defeated more styles and though Gomez has the best win Ortiz has far more depth. Hypothetically, so counts not a bit but I don’t think Gomez has any problems beating a smaller, used up Sugar Ramos nor does that version of Elorde give him any troubles for example. On a pound for pound basis Ortiz probably didn’t beat anyone Gomez wouldn’t have if you hypothetically measure both guys over a 6-7 year period but that’s not how it works. I’ll say that while Gomez was more explosive, entertaining, powerful, faster etc; Ortiz was more solid and was the more all around complete boxer.

 

One of the interesting things about Gomez's reign as that the division that he reigned over, and the crew that he defended against were generally better than they're given credit for being.

For example...

* Jose Cervantes has wins over Olivares and Jorge Lujuan.
* Raul Tirado had a win over future standout bantam Alberto Davila
* Nicky Perez was on a 41 fight win streak, and was the USBA champ when that meant something as a regional belt.
* Sakad Petchyindee may have had only two fights, but one was over a well traveled and experienced contender Jose Antonio Lopez. Would go on to hold a regional title at lightweight. Was also an incredible muay thai fighter, and the inspiration for the Sagat character in Street Fighter.
* Leo Cruz, Juan Meza, and Royal Kobayashi all held world titles at 122lbs.

I think in other eras, a few of these guys could have reigned for a while at 122lbs. If not, then Zarate and/or Pintor could certainly have done so.

So, while Ortiz does have the better resume, the margin btx him and Bazooka might not be quite as large as one might think.

 

Where is Carmelo Negron and John LoCicero! Very exciting.

 

Vasquez is a consideration for a place in the top 10 but I'd personally have him in or around the 15 spot probably.

George got the four greatest absolutely right, which includes Trinidad. The only question is the order. But Ortiz is definitely top 4 - who else on this list is a top 10 fighter in one of the original 8 divisions (I personally have Ortiz as the 5th greatest lightweight of all time)?

You don't seem to rate Basora at all but he beat some outstanding fighters and held the greatest fighter that ever lived to a deserved draw in SRR's prime. He should at least be a contender for a top 10 spot. And you're over-rating JuanMa to an absurd degree. You mention his win over Rafael Marquez but Marquez was clearly finished by that point - prime for prime Marquez would have beaten Lopez, I'm sure.

As for Cocoa Kid ('Chocolate'?), yes, he has a lot of losses but look who he fought! I'd love to see what JuanMa's record looked like if he'd had even half the number of fights Cocoa Kid had. Even as it is, JuanMa lost 6 in 43 fights and all by KO. The Kid had only one more defeat by KO than Lopez in nearly 250 fights. Fighters often lost more in the past because they fought more and they were often matched tough. Lopez was largely a hype job who as soon as he tasted defeat, carried on losing. If he'd fought with the same frequency and been matched with the same toughness, I doubt he'd have much more then a 50% winning record by this point.

 

If he's a top 15 super bantamweight then that doesn't say much for the depth of that weight division! How do you figure his achievements are superior?! He won a portion of a world title and defended it some times - okay... that distinguishes him particularly in what way from any number of paper world champions? When he met someone who could actually fight and was a live opponent (Orlando Salido) he got his ass handed to him - twice. He was shot after that and had no punch resistance. I can only imagine how bad his record would be if he carried on for even 100 fights let alone the 250 that Cocoa Kid had in his career.