George Foreman ‘73 vs. James J. Jeffries ‘03

Well I don't subscribe to your equation. The idea that 200lbs+ = more power, better chin, better fighter etc. There are shorter fighters who packed a hell of a punch. Have you ever heard of Sam Langford? There are lots of variables that go into punching power, its not just about height and weight. Sharkey had 37 (recorded) wins and 34 knockouts, which of the guys you mentioned have a similar percentage?
Sharkey was named in the 100 greatest punchers list, none of the guys you mentioned were on it.
We've already had this conversation. No point beating a dead horse.
You don't have to entertain my 'ridiculous' comments Mick, feel free to unsubscribe.

 

Because he threw everything in his arsenal at Ali convinced that he would ko him and therefore had no need to husband his strength!
Jesus nobody with any pretensions of boxing knowledge should need to be told this!
He didn't work a lot on his stamina ,he had learned to pace himself and operate at a measured pace behind his jab! This is all rudimentary stuff that green horns learn and you are unaware of it! Or even worse, have watched his fights and misinterpreted what he is doing in there!

In how many of those 81 fights did he ko his opponents?
You are trying to penalise him for knocking out his opponents early!

That is not only illogical,it is the very height of absurdity!

Its official you are either a fool, or a troll,or both!

 

I'll post when and where I like.
Don't threaten me Haemorrhoid,it won't end well for you.

 

How so? Fitzsimmons clearly proved how little his inactivity affected him in his fight against Jeffries, and would still go on to compete with solid contenders like O'Brien and Gardner 1-2 years after the Jefries fight. His spar with Corbett was a few months shy of his performance fight against Jeffries! Fitzsimmons still had his speed, technique and skill by this point and he also proved how much he still had in the tank him against Jeffries, and even later on against O'Brien and Gardner

For example, MMA fighter Dominick Cruz was inactive and injured for 3-4 years. He was still able to come back and defeat the second greatest bantamweight of all time in TJ Dillashaw. Inactivity isn't an immediate representation of how a fighter will perform when they return, and Fitzsimmons proved it.

 

Langford ko'd loads of heavies and was never one punched ko'd by a middleweight
You have my response to your silliness ,no need to add to it further.

 

Its a matter of fact.
When Foreman was extended past the 5th round the chances of survival increased - which means he was a fast starter and struggled to retain his strength as the fight went on. That is demonstrated throughout his career. I don't see why thats so difficult to wrap your head around or how pointing that out diminishes his early KO wins?
You don't have the objectivity of mind to see the difference between noticing a trend in his career and 'penalising him'. I used to think wisdom came with age... Looks like I was wrong.

 

Have you read any books on Jeffries and Fitz? Fitz had suffered with bad hands for years and went into the 2nd Jeffries fight with them You've read one little tid bit about Corbett and Firtz's spar and are convinced he was all he had ever been based on that?
I suggest you look a bit further afield before forming your opinion.

Fitz was 39 years old when he came out of a 2years retirement in 1902,that was positively ancient in those days.

 

What comes with age is the ability to detect BS from trolls.
Now we are done.

 

Because he threw everything in his arsenal at Ali convinced that he would ko him and therefore had no need to husband his strength!
Shows a lack of fight IQ if you ask me.
It is a well known fact that Foreman had issues with stamina nobody (outside of fanboys) can ignore it. He was a plodder.

 

Big talk from the old fart.

 

I am aware of Fitzsimmons' hand problems, I believe that Fitzsimmons actually asked Jeffries to postpone the second fight for a few months due to a hand injury. I also read elsewhere, as I believe we discussed before, that Fitzsimmons asked Jeffries for 'special' handwraps to help easen his pain. However, the main question is, do these hand injuries still take away from how much Bob still had left at this point? His hands were still hurting when he was obliterating Sharkey and Ruhlin after all.

While that combination of inactivity and age would hurt most fighters (and still does nowadays) we do still have quite a few instances where athletes overcome it. An example would be when 40 year old Jem Mace came back from a 4 year lay off in 1876 to beat reigning champ Tom Allen. I think Fitz is that rare instance, like Mace, and judging from his performances post-Jeffries it does seem like he wasn't as shot as we think. After all, the only reason Jeffries even won was that Fitzsimmons gassed out

 

You're at the age were you're beginning to resemble one.

 

The Sharkey and Ruhlin fights were 2 years earlier.Fitz did not gas out, his hands went on him. LPR and MQR are totally different.

 

Basically everything in your post is flat out wrong or a lie

Foreman did not simply swing wildly in all his fights before the Frazier fight:

In this fight he uses his jab, mostly straight punches, has responsible defense, and uses lateral movement.

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In this fight, he uses good parrying, smothers his opponents punches, uses head movement, and keeps his opponent in his preferred range:

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Ali embarrassed everyone. What is your point? He is consistently rated as one of if not the fastest heavyweight of all time.

Tom Sharkey was a 5'8 180 pound slugger and was landing at will for 20 rounds. Jeff went life and death with him TWICE. Foreman going life and death with Lyle was so "embarrassing" that he won fight of the year...!

Rocky's own opponents said he lacked ring IQ and technique...! Are you going to say they're invalidated and don't know anything about boxing either...?!? How many more times are you going to cherry pick which historical evidence you will use and which ones you'll ignore?

Joe Louis: "The Rock didn't know too much about the boxing book, but it wasn't a book he hit me with. It was a whole library of bone crushers."

I brought up ALL those questions several pages ago and you ignored them to talk about how Jeff must've had good defense since he lived long", an idiotic statement since Tex Cobb is doing just fine in his 70's.


Now to address the main issues:

-The fight isn't going to go to the later rounds, Foreman would stop Jeff early. But thanks for conceding Foreman obviously hits harder.

-Tom Sharkey was TINY and could've made light heavyweight today. Getting hit by him multiple times is not as impressive as getting hit by big men weighing anywhere from 205-230+. Foreman has the better chin based on actual results and common sense.

-I frankly do not care if you don't regard gold medals highly. The point is Foreman obviously had to have good fundamentals, skill, and ring IQ to win a gold medal.

-Frazier was an undefeated world champion when Foreman beat him. Yes he was in his prime. You're the same guy who is trying to ignore how old Corbett and Fitzsimmons were at 36 and 39 years old, but you are criticizing Foreman beating a 29 year old Frazier...?!? It is a FACT Foreman beat younger, bigger, stronger opponents.

-If Jeff had other fights that weren't recorded it's irrelevant to the discussion unless you can verify some of them with credible sources. It is a FACT Foreman had a MUCH longer career with more experience against a wider variety of styles.



Now we have concluded that Foreman:

-Was bigger than Jeff
-Hit harder than Jeff
-Had an arguably better chin than Jeff
-Factually has more experience than Jeff
-Factually faced younger, bigger opponents
-Factually faced a wider variety of styles
-Is arguably more skilled than Jeff
-Had a jab that was a million times better with a wider variety of punches.
-Had better defense than Jeff

Literally the only advantage Jeff had was stamina and as I said, it won't make a difference if Foreman knocks him out of stops him early.

Yet you still favor Jeff to win...??? How?!? Both of them are sluggers. Jeff is not going to outpoint Foreman, he is not going to get on his toes and box, nor is he going to counter punch and fight off the backfoot. He is going to meet him ring center, feet planted, to slug it out with a bigger, stronger, more skilled, more experiences opponent.

 

I was speaking about sports and overcoming inactivity in the past as a whole when I used Mace as an example