George Foreman , overrated ?

Yes I saw this. And this is an example of how opinion on Foreman changed AFTER his second career.

I was talking about how the record stood during that first retirement when you could not find a decent rating for him even though everyone assumed Foreman was not coming back.

As for Manny Stewart , right after comeback George put in one of his best performances against Bert Cooper he still called Foremans comeback...


"a traveling roadshow. It just proves you keep something out there long enough and the people will start to believe. Never in the history of boxing have there been so many handpicked bums" - Manny Steward


-the July 17 1989 issue of sports illustrated.

 

Foreman did fight a lot of journeymen or "bums" during his 2nd career. I think it was smart. George didn't view it as a come back as much as he was approaching it as if he were a prospect just coming up the ranks. They all fight those type of guys on the way up. Plus it was great marketing.

 

I was talking about the first career. During his first retirement, when nobody thought he was going to comeback you couldn't find a good ATG rating for Prime Foreman because he was seen as unfulfilled talent after Ali burst his bubble and he quit boxing.

 

I agree. In his second career Foreman was hand picking his opponents but he was also paying his dues within the ranks and developing properly. By then he was a real grown up who was as wise as any trainer himself. Bob Arum dropped him when George refused to fight Anders Eklund because he said he was too tough. George really knew he needed to be selective by then and hats off to him for navigating his way up the ratings to get the right fights. It was great marketing. And second time around it really paid off for him. An all time great achievement considering his age.

 

Yeah , but he fought up to 9 of them per year.

The top guys of today can't get in more than two of the same calibre of fighter per year.

 

You judge him come full circle , not half circle.

 

Foreman's second career is what made us realize that he had heart, determination, and could take a great shot. Without the second career we never would have realized George had those qualities. He didn't show those attributes in his first career, destructive as he could be, and thus did not rank highly on ATG lists between 77 and 87. And had he never come back he would rank much lower on ATG lists today.

Likewise, had Ali never come back after 1967 he wouldn't be regarded as a top 2 ATG. We wouldn't have seen how he responded to adversity. We wouldn't have seen his toughness. All we would have seen was a slick boxer who, other than rising from a few flash knockdowns, was never really tested.

 

Half circle he was a talented flash in the pan. Second half of that circle he had redeemed himself somewhat with his selective navigation up the ratings, longevity and ring smarts. Full circle you cannot invent a new fighter adding the best parts of both halves of the circle.

 

This is a good post and I agree with it.

What stands out is the double standard we all have. We wait until a career is done and use the strongest points of a career to make the strongest case even if those strongest points come from the part of a career with the weaker regard.

Like you say Ali would be rated lower if he never came back after 1967 EVEN THOUGH his better performances like the big cat Williams, Sonny Liston and Terrell fights are used to demonstrate his prime better than anything that came after it.

Same with George. If he never came back he wouldn't be rated very high at all. He would in fact languish within the ranks of Max Baer or Ingo Johansson even though his best performances used to demonstrate his prime are the two times he blew Norton and Frazier to smithereens. Nobody is using his Crawford Grimsby or Axel Schulz performances to demonstrate Foreman at his best.

 

Great post by sweet.

 

Nobody talks about his cleverness.

Foreman was a highly clever fighter, especially in his comeback. The way he set up that Cooney knockdown with the overhand uppercut combo was brilliant. He is deceptive and always looks conteplative.
He is actually not a muscle memory fighter.

 

He showed that cleverness against Holyfield later and also against Moorer.

 

I agree Foreman is way more fashionable than he was in 1984.

Have you found any top ten ATG ratings for George during this 1984 time? Back then , nobody thought Foreman was coming back so there was enough time for the dust to settle and evaluate fairly where George might rate.

Gilbert Odd did his HW ratings in his book Kings OF The Ring in 1985 and Foreman did not make the top 25!!!