George Foreman , overrated ?

imagine if Jack Dempsey never got back into the ring against Firpo? Let's say his leg got hurt or the reporters did not help him back in then Firpo would have decimated Dempsey wouldn't he? A thrilling one round knockout of a great champion. Firpo also had a knockout of Bill Brennan and Willard behind him. I imagine back then this combined with the Dempsey win Firpo would then appear like an exciting young champion. What else could he be?

Then imagine Gene Tunney beats him, schools and exposes Firpo, he then spends 15 months inactive takes part in a five guy debacle in Canada strings a few so so wins before somebody else schools Firpo comparable to Jimmy Young perhaps johnny Risko, Young Stribling, Or jim Maloney and the whole experience sends Firpo into retirement, then I think Firpo, despite his earlier KO of Dempsey, Willard and Brennan would almost certainly go down as a big Flash in the pan too.

Perhaps a surprise bald headed comeback from Firpo, culminating in a championship win over Jimmy Braddock, would then launch Firpo into ATG world rankings and erase the long lost years where he was spoken of as a Flash in the pan?

 

Dempsey DID get back into the ring. You are changing history and replacing it with pure fantasy to suit the agenda.

 

Trying to rate George accurately after his initial retirement had to have been as tricky as rating Riddick Bowe accurately today.

 

If not harder.

 

I'm sorry. Whoever told you this when you first started following boxing was obviously dead wrong.

In fact, do you or the person who told you this know anything about the history of the U.S. at all?

Foreman in the 1968 Olympics was one of the primary news stories of that whole year. Not just a sports story, one of the top news stories.

The 1968 Olympics was the first Olympics televised in color and the first on ABC. They were also the first that gained a huge television audience (600 million people globally). They were also the first that included profiles of all the athletes, so people got to know who they were. They were a major television event, and George Foreman was one of the predominant stories. After the Two U.S. tracks stars raised their fists on the podium in the Black Power salute that caused headlines around the world, Foreman countered them with waiving the U.S. flag, and he garnered equal attention for it and was vilified by Civil Rights and Black Power leaders for it.

On top of that, he knocked out the USSR's heavyweight in the gold medal match, which was monster news at a time when ANY head-to-head meeting between a U.S. athlete and a Soviet athlete was headline news on both sides of the world.

The Black Power salute and Foreman's response WAS the story that came out of the 1968 Olympics in the U.S.

His Pro Debut in 1969 was televised on national television prior to the Frazier-Quarry title fight on Wide World of Sports. Tens of millions of people saw it ... back when most homes only had three television stations.

He was the chief support before the Liston-Martin fight that aired live on ABC Wide World of Sports the same year (1969).

He was the chief support (Foreman-Peralta) before the Frazier-Ellis unification at Madison Square Garden that aired on national television on ABC in 1970.

He was the main event in Madison Square Garden against Chuvalo in 1970, in a fight that was distributed nationally.

His fight with Boone Kirkman was the main event at Madison Square Garden before the screen was lowered to televised the Frazier-Foster closed circuit match in 1970.

He fought nearly 40 times in four years after the Olympics, all over the country, making headlines in the sports pages every few weeks. By 1972, Muhammad Ali was more preoccupied with George Foreman sitting at ringside than Ali was with Quarry after their rematch.

More than 36,000 people turned out for the Frazier-Foreman fight in Jamaica ... triple the number that had turned out for Ali-Frazier 1. And not exactly a convenient location for a fight. It was the first fight aired live by HBO and was viewed by tens of millions of people on ABC's rebroadcast.

Foreman destroying Frazier and Foreman being carried from the ring were in the opening of Wide World of Sports for years afterward.

He was the first heavyweight champion to defend his title in Japan. His fight with Ali was the second highest rated telecast in the history of Wide World of Sports. His fight with Lyle in 1976 is considered arguably the best ever televised on Wide World of Sports.

He was the announcer (along with Howard Cosell) of the 1976 Olympic boxing telecasts, which were among the highest every seen in the U.S. All of his fights in 1975, 1976 and 1977 aired live on ABC, with the exception of the Frazier rematch, which was closed circuit (and it was rebroadcast on ABC), because he drew huge ratings.

An estimated 35 million US television viewers watched Foreman-Young in prime time on ABC in 1977. (That's 35 TIMES the number of people who watch Deontay Wilder fight.) I WOULDN'T CALL THAT "AS YOU SAID" BEING IGNORED.

George Foreman, from 1968 to 1977 was one of the most high profile athletes in the United States and was known all over the world - from the USA to the USSR and Japan.

Whoever the f*ck told you he was a flash in the pan or "virtually unknown" or "was ignored after 1974" either wasn't alive during Foreman's first career or he's a complete imbecile.

And if you, after following boxing for a while, haven't figured that out yet for yourself, you aren't much brighter.

And I'll leave it at that.

 

If this is exactly your position, too, then you are just as clueless.

 

Number 2 on my all-time hwg list

 

Bottom line after he lost to Ali Foreman was never thought of as an ATG or a potential ATG. That changed when he koed Moorer.

 

Everyone is trying to change the goal posts.

Foreman was ignored/dropped out of sight after he lost to Ali for 15 months. No one is saying George was ignored PRIOR to that period. The 5 men in one night exhibition was a debacle and hurt George's reputation further. Then he fought Lyle. Great fight but he was nearly stopped and showed none of his old confidence. The he fought several tomato cans, koed a faded Frazier a second time and then lost terribly to Young. After retiring yes he dropped out of sight and the public did not really care.

Leading up to his bout with Ali certainly you will find articles suggesting Foreman was a potential ATG. Matching him in hypothetical bouts with Louis etc. Once Ali beat him that was it for any ATG status. All that talk went out the window never to return until his comeback well over a decade later.

Today he is rated as an ATG. Prior to Ali there was talk that he was a potential ATG. In between forget about it.

 

Even when Foreman wasn't boxing, he'd show up from time to time. In February 1975 he showed up on Six Million Dollar Man, and in early 1976 he was on Sanford and Son. It was April 1975 that he fought the 'Toronto Five', six months after Zaire and eight months prior to Lyle. In late 1981 he was interviewed on Nightline (if memory serves); it was a fairly long interview centered around the comebacks of Frazier and Ali. George was asked if he'd ever come back. His reply? Something like, "Me? Nah, I'll never come back." One of the mags, Ring I think, interviewed him in the mid-80's a few years before his comeback. George was always very good about keeping his name out there, from 1968 to the present day.

World / International Boxing continued to rate George a year and a half after his loss to Young. I recall a reader writing in and asking why. The response was, "28 year old former heavyweight champions don't retire and stay retired."

International Boxing - December 1978

(as of September 1, 1978)

1. Larry Holmes (WBC)
2. Leon Spinks (World)
3. Ken Norton
4. Muhammad Ali
5. Jimmy Young
6. George Foreman
7. Ron Lyle
8. Earnie Shavers
9. Alfredo Evangelista
10. Stan Ward

 

True but at the same time false.

You cannot cite two instances where Foreman was interviewed post 1977 and prior to his comeback and conclude from that Foreman was good at keeping his "name out there". That's allot of years. George was retired and had his own church congregation in Texas. He was not spending time keeping his name out there nationally.

 

All of these facts were known to me and everyone else on this thread. Everyone has been having a polite debate on this topic and none of these angry statements you have brought here changes the ATG status of Foremans first career.

Popularity and exposeure wont change the fact that George Foreman was a huge underdog fighting Frazier. Him winning the title was a huge upset. At that time Muhammad Ali and Joe Frazier were considered the worlds best two heavyweights. It was out of them not Foreman.

Foreman was a prospect at that point not considered ready for that kind of fight. in actual terms, despite Foremans ludicrous high 1972 rating from beating Terry Sorrell, joe Murphy Gordwin and Clarence Boone (appalling mismatches) in 1972 George was behind Ali because in the same 1972 season Ali beat Quarry, Patterson, blue Lewis, Mac Foster and chuvalo right after beating Mac Foster and Ellis in 1971.

Frazier represented Foremans first elite win. Norton also represented an elite win because the Foreman v Norton clash represented a fight between the best two heavyweights in the world since ken had a win over Ali. Making two out of two elite wins, one to decide who was the best. I won't mention Jose Roman because that's a lower level.

We all know about the Ali fight. Foreman was expected to win even though by then 32 year old Ali on his second comeback had beaten every guy he ever met. So Foreman lost the second fight he had to decide the best heavyweight in the world. lets not forget Ali was also the guy who was regarded the more outstanding contender at the time Foreman got his crack at Frazier ahead of Muhammad.

Foremans career after that point did not really recover.

Ron Lyle was a good opponent in hindsight but their battle was not to decide who was the most outstanding contender. Lyle had been exposed by jerry Quarry, drew with old man Peralta and Ron had lost two of his last three fights going into their clash. It's just a win over a name guy that Ali had already knocked out. And George looked too reckless winning.

Aside from the rematch with a shot Frazier, The only other name guy after that (jimmy Young) produced his next loss and sent him into retirement. That win made Young an elite fighter for bit afterwards but jimmy was just another contender going into that win over Foreman.

So assessing his first career Foreman took part in just two fights to decide who was the best Heavyweight in the world and he lost one of them by knockout. It was disappointing compared to the promise George had shown with his surprise win over Frazier in 1973.

 

We aren't always in the same corner but your recollections align a lot more closely to mine than other posts in here.

 

Again, this aligns well with my train of memory. Even after Holmes won the title and got on a bit of a run people were wondering if Foreman might come back and put the cat among the pigeons as he was still only about 31. They were also wondering what might have happened if he never stopped boxing. He was held in high regard.