George Foreman , overrated ?

Most heavyweight lists (aside from Ring's apparently) have been pretty consistent going back to 1982.

At the start of 1982, Marley's pub had a top 10 with: Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Larry Holmes.

In 1987/88, Steve Farhood had the same top 10: Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Larry Holmes.

In 2009, Sports Illustrated printed a list of the 10 greatest heavyweights ... and they basically had the same top 10 Marley published 27 years earlier ... except Gene Tunney had been replaced by Lennox Lewis. But the rest remained: Jack Johnson, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano, Sonny Liston, Muhammad Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman and Larry Holmes.

http://www.si.com/more-sports/photos/2009/11/18-1top-10-all-time-greatest-heavyweights

At the end of last year, Doug Fischer printed a list of the top heavyweights of all time for RINGTV. The list mirrors the Sports Illustrated list, but they dropped Jack Johnson out of the top 10 for Holyfield (and put Tunney back in in place of Liston).

http://www.ringtv.com/410833-bill-caplans-20-greatest-heavyweights/

Regardless, Foreman's been pretty much a mainstay in peoples' Top 10 lists for the past 35 years, when it finally sunk in for people that he was going to preach and wouldn't be coming back to fight the Leon Spinks, John Tates and Mike Weavers of the world.

And roughly seven of the top 10 all-time heavyweights (including Foreman) have been the same on many lists for coming up on four decades.

 

Can somebody please explain the premise of this thread... How is Foreman overrated and by whom?

 

Here is a more extensive listing. Note Foreman does not appear until after he rewins the hwt championship.

Historians Rankings Of the Top 10 All-Time Heavyweights

Nat Fleischer, Founder of Ring Magazine, 1958, 1971.

Jack Johnson

Jim Jeffries

Bob Fitzsimmons

Jack Dempsey

Jim Corbett

Joe Louis

Sam Langford

Gene Tunney

Max Schemling

Rocky Marciano


Charley Rose, 1968

Sam Langford

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

Joe Louis

Jim Jeffries

Gene Tunney

Sam McVey

Rocky Marciano

Jim Corbett

Max Baer


World Boxing 1974 Readers Poll

Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Rocky Marciano

Jack Johnson

Muhammad Ali

Joe Frazier

Gene Tunney

Jim Jeffries

Sonny Liston

Ezzard Charles


Nat Loubet, 1975

Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Jim Jeffries

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

Gene Tunney

Bob Fitzsimmons

James J. Corbett

Muhammad Ali

Joe Frazier


John Durant -Author of "The Heavyweight Champions" (1976)

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

Muhammad Ali

Gene Tunney

Joe Frazier

Jim Jeffries

James J. Corbett

Rocky Marciano

Max Schemling


Bill Brennan 1978 (Former President of the WBA)

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Jack Johnson

Gene Tunney

Jim Jeffries

Max Schemeling

Rocky Marciano

James J. Corebett

Bob Fitzsimmons


Big Book of Boxing Reader Poll, 1978

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Rocky Marciano

Jack Dempsey

Jack Johnson

Gene Tunney

Joe Frazier

Jim Jeffries

Ezzard Charles

Sonny Liston


Gilbert Odd, 1985 (Kings of the Ring)

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Floyd Patterson

Jack Dempsey

Jim Jeffries

Tommy Burns

Gene Tunney

Jim Corbett

Max Schmeling


Bert Sugar, 1991

Jack Dempsey

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Johnson

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

Joe Frazier

Larry Holmes

Sonny Liston

Mike Tyson


Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Dempsey

Jack Johnson

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

Larry Holmes

Jersey Joe Walcott

Joe Frazier

Sonny Liston


Nigel Collins, 1997

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Evander Holyfield

Larry Holmes

George Foreman

Jack Johnson

Rocky Marciano

Joe Frazier

Jack Dempsey

Sonny Liston


Herbert Goldman, 1997

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Sonny Liston

Mike Tyson

Larry Holmes

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

George Foreman

Rocky Marciano

Joe Frazier


Steve Farhood, 1997

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

Rocky Marciano

Jack Dempsey

Jim Jeffries

Evander Holyfield

Mike Tyson

George Foreman


BBC Sports, 2004

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Jack Johnson

Larry Holmes

Jack Dempsey

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

Mike Tyson

George Foreman

Evander Holyfield


IBRO Member Poll, 2005

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

Rocky Marciano

Larry Holmes

James Jeffries

George Foreman

Sonny Liston

Joe Frazier


ESPN, 2007

Joe Louis

Muhammad Ali

Jack Dempsey

Jack Johnson

Gene Tunney

Rocky Marciano

Ezzard Charles

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Larry Holmes


Richard O'Brien (SI Senior Editor) 2009

Muhammad Ali

Joe Louis

Sonny Liston

Larry Holmes

Jack Johnson

Jack Dempsey

George Foreman

Joe Frazier

Rocky Marciano

Lennox Lewis

 

I stand corrected, thank you for posting Christopher Coats ATG list from 1982 that did indeed include George Foreman. If I had not have seen it I might never have believed it.

I really had not seen this kind of rating for Foreman back then. Well done.

Your saying I based everything on what I had seen, well from what I remembered that's what I had seen. I grew up on Gilbert Odd books, Bert Sugar, frank a Butler books, Peter Wilson and Henry cooper books, boxing news and American Magazines during Foremans retirement. I never could find anything like that in those days,

 

Actually there's a different version from 1988 when Tyson defeated Spinks, but I can't seem to find it right now. But I actually found two different sources: the November 1989 issue of Boxing Illustrated and the Volume 1 Mike Tyson 105 page special for The Ring magazine when Tyson was released from prison in 1995.

BOXING ILLUSTRATED results by Bert Sugar...
Muhammad Ali: Ali wins 12 round decision.
Max Baer: Tyson by KO in 2.
Ezzard Charles: Tyson by KO in 8.
Jack Dempsey: Dempsey by Ko in 3.
Joe Frazier: Tyson by TKO in 5.
Jack Johnson: Johnson by KO in 11.
Sonny Liston: Liston by KO in 4.
Joe Louis: Louis by KO in 8.
Rocky Marciano: Tyson by TKO on cuts in 10.
Gene Tunney: Tunney wins 12 round decision.

THE RING results by Steve Farhood...
Jack Johnson: Tyson by KO in 9.
Jack Dempsey: Tyson by KO in 2.
Rocky Marciano: Tyson by TKO on cuts in 6.
Muhammad Ali: Ali by decision.
Larry Holmes: Tyson by KO in 9.
Joe Frazier: Frazier by decision.
Sonny Liston: Tyson by TKO in 12.

This content is protected

: Tyson by KO in 8.
Joe Louis: Tyson by KO in 13.
Gene Tunney: Tyson by TKO in 6.

 

yes, the Christopher Coats list you posted from Marleys publication did indeed list Foreman. We never got that magazine in the UK. Looks a good one though. I haven't seen any articles from Coats before. Was he as well known or celebrated as much as Peter Wilson, Frank Butler, Bert Sugar and Gilbert Odd??

yes by 87/88 I began to see a Foreman included. It was a stark contrast for me from what I read and saw up until that point.

Foreman was not a consistent lock in the ATG lists between 1975 and 1987. Far from it.

after 1990s certainly.

 

This looks like the version I remember That did not include George Foreman! I knew I was not going mad!

Thanks for posting.

 

I have this one as well. Came out a few months before Tyson lost to Holyfield. I like the little quips why they're ranked where they are and what they could've done to get a higher ranking (I think Sugar Ray Robinson's was "If he could've walked on water", even though he was ranked #1).

 

We all go a little mad sometimes! But yes, you are correct.

 

That's right, I liked the bit about Spinks needing a sledge hammer to beat Tyson. Lol

 

Haha!! Got a chuckle out of that one myself. I like's Tyson's justification quip: "It's not what he's done, it's what he can still do!". Unfortunately he didn't do much after that issue pulled a Sports Illustrated jinx on him.

 

I remember a magazine, possibly Ring, from the late 80's suggesting that the TOP TIER ATG's were Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Louis, Marciano, Ali and Frazier. Second tier were Tunney, Liston and Holmes. Third tier were Baer, Schmeling, Charles, Walcott, Patterson and Foreman.

 

Yes, thankfully DC has now blown the whole debate out of the water. Great work, great research and an excellent effort.

 

yes that sounds right too. Nobody would believe it now would they? Foreman beside Patterson,max Baer and ingo johansson. But that is how it often was before the comeback.