George Foreman , overrated ?

Well he has one list from somebody called "Christopher Coats", it's hardly a blowing out of the water joby but it is worth seeing something as rare as that from that time. For 1982 it seems ahead of its time. Well done DC. Maybe Coats was a Boxing soothsayer?

 

Okay now this is something I can respect and appreciate

 

Yeah I tihnk everyone wrote him off becaause being able to comeback 10 years after his last fight is not only rare it's unheard of. I don't think there's been anyone who has left during his prime and cameback 10 years later and then work his way up again.

 

You should ALSO NOTE Foreman hadn't even turned pro when two of these lists you're including were published.

Why on earth would George Foreman be ranked among the best heavyweights of all time in a 1958 poll, a 1968 poll, and a 1971 poll ... and why would you include those? And two reader polls from the mid 70s?

Steve Farhood ranked Foreman among the ten best ever for the first time in early 1988 (not 1996). I posted that.

If you start with the 1982 list with Foreman at six (published at the end of 1981, about five years after he retired), Farhood's 1988 list with Foreman, and all the subsequent lists (Goldman, Nigel Collins, BBC Sports, IBRO, Sports Illustrated, RINGTV) ... they're nearly all identical lists as the 1982 list (with one or sometimes two changes).

Foreman's in all of them, though. The only guys who didn't seem to eye-to-eye in the 80s with all the lists were Gilbert Odd and Bert Sugar.

Trying wedge in polls from 1958, 1968, 1971 and some reader polls in the mid 70s to try to add more polls without Foreman doesn't add anything to the conversation and seems kind of cheap.

When people were certain he'd retired in the early 80s, he started to get ranked all-time. That's just the way it was. Sorry.

 

Or desperate.

You've probably delivered the most important piece of info right there. People just kept thinking/hoping he'd be back. It makes sense.

 

well that is not including 1992 Arthur Harris of boxing scene (the same publication as Chris coats who started the 1982 Foreman inclusion) 1985 Gilbert Odd and 1991 Burt Sugar. that's three lists out of four lists of the period your talking about that DID not include George.

well it's not just Gilbert Odd and Burt Sugar, it's also Boxing Scene in 1992. Foremans inclusion was far from unanimous after his retirement and before his regaining the title. Foreman was eligible from 1975 from the lists gathered together in this thread. Frazier, Ali, Foreman himself eventually and Holyfield all registered whilst still active boxers. So Foreman only really became a unanimous lock on top ten After he regained the title.

it slowly began in the 1980s, certainly. You proved that.

 

Im glad Perry posted these earlier lists because it shows that there is a history of champions registering as ATG top ten whilst active already in place. Foreman was not included among them once he became eligiable in 1973. Also these lists show how past champions can come in and out of vogue after their retirement. Take Sonny Liston he became a popular choice in the 1990s ATG top ten lists having only registered twice in the 1970s. He was not considered at all in the 1960s or very much in the 1970s and 1980s. So that is some revival!

 

Of course Foreman wasn't a lock for the top 10. Not many are. He also wasn't a lock to miss out, as proven.

What's apparent to me is that Foreman was indeed an ATG after his first career, certainly in the eyes of many.

Whether it became more pronounced or accepted the closer we got to say, 1988 or whatever is irrelevant imo. I believe that between my references that he got rated higher the more Ali added to his legend and DC's that people kept thinking he'd come back and was more current than finished explains that part. The appreciation of Ali just grew and grew, particularly given the division went down a few steps when Ali and co were done.

We've seen how long it can take for people to warm to the true talents of a fighter.

Again, top 10 need not be the be all and end all when it comes to being ATG. He obviously made his share of top 10 tho.

 

Gordon, i've asked the above question twice but it's been ignored both times. We can add his win over Norton in as a sidebar, as Nortons trilogy with Ali needs no explanation and he gave a young Larry Holmes hell when well past his prime.

Frazier was reigning champ, is ATG and had never been beaten btw.

 

Whilst accepting Foreman did make one list in 1982, I think with somebody like Burt Sugar and Gilbert Odd not including Foreman after that point, not to mention the same publication later changing its mind on Foreman after going out on a limb with him in the first place, it is not irrational to conclude Foreman was a minority pick during that time. Henry cooper wrote "was Foreman ever as good as we thought he was" so the jury was certainly still out on Foreman for others.

 

Foreman made more than one list, that much is obvious and has been shown. Bert Sugar is usually treated as a joke in here and for no small reason.

With Ali at 9 in Loubet's 1975 list Foreman was never going to make it. Ali wasn't yet appreciated let alone a Foreman.

Odd certainly lives up to his name, one of the worst lists i've ever seen.

As explained appreciation of George was mostly slow coming but certainly on the go around the start of the 80's.

Regardless of lists limited to 10 George was an ATG by the time Ali closed the curtain.

 

http://www.boxinginsider.com/columns/ten-great-heavyweights-time/

6. George Foreman-76-5-0-(68): Arguably the hardest puncher in heavyweight history. Foreman’s career can be broken into two parts: his menacing first reign and his subsequent comeback nearly ten years after his first retirement.

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Those are the victories that secured his legacy as a heavyweight, but it’s his conquest of Michael Moore at age 45 to regain the championship that has elevated Foreman from great to almost mythical status.

 

This is certainly the recent opinion on George. Nobody can deny this is popular after the rising like a Phoenix from the flames to capture the title after so many years away and has legitimately become established from that point.

..But even this piece here erases the confusion and disappointment after the Jimmy Young result, which is typical today but not during Foremans absence from the sport.

Whilst it was a magnificent, unequaled feat to become a linear champion again..nobody was under any illusions George Foreman was ever the "best heavyweight in the world" again after beating Moorer. We still had Lewis, Bowe and Holyfield in contention for that status. For example Ring magazine dropped Foreman from #1 to #8 even though he was still winning decisions over Grimsby and Saverese with his Linear claim.

This "Tyson Bruce" character who wrote that Foreman, with the Joe Roman and Ron Lyle wins also confirmed his legacy cannot have known that Ron Lyle had lost two of his last three fights, or have read some of the stuff said about Foreman after the Ali and jimmy Young Losses. There was unanswered questions about George first time around. Questions he only answered by coming back and later making a success of himself all over again.

 

Jose Roman being described as a "top tier" heavyweight is amusing.