That, of course, depends upon how you define "elite". Foreman has Lyle, Norton, Frazier x2, Moorer and Qawi depending upon how you feel about that. Maricano has Walcott x2, Charles x2, Moore and Joe Louis depending upon how you feel about that. So there's parity there. This is kind of what you'd expect to see IMO.
Frazier 2 ? In this debate so far, not even George's staunchest defenders have tried to say that the shell of the man that used to be Joe Frazier was an elite opponent that night !
I'd draw a parallel between he and Walcott. Both can come out, or neither. Either way, they continue at a sort of parity. Foreman doesn't have many middling-top types but he has as many elite fighters as most.
I admit, since joining ESB in 2010, my liking of Big George has taken a tremendous hit. Comeback George was one of my favorite fighters of all time. But I don't think there is a more unrealistic, fantasyland living, otherworldly and irrational fan base out there. Debating with this type of creature is dangerous to one's health. I believe his record against rated opposition is 7-5. He's barely batting above .500 against ranked opponents and that's a big part of my criteria when ranking All Time Greats. In both careers his record was padded. But then he has the 3 HUGE wins over Frazier, Norton and the miracle over Moorer that drops him into my Top 10.
You've touched on all the key points. Ive never said he wasnt a good fighter and is certainly a key figure in boxing history,but i feel he's the most overrated out of the big boys. Post Zaire his career was ordinary ( in terms of pure results) although there was nothing ordinary about him in particular. Moorer is his only big win. His first career ended after he was first exposed, then further exposed and left with nowhere to go. His second career was a triumph of a kind for perseverance , rather than an upsurge in ability.
What truly elite wins would you attribute to Holmes, Marciano and Louis, particulalry if we set the bar at Foreman's crushing KO of ATG (and champ at the time) Joe Frazier?
I like George Foreman but I do agree with most of your point. However, he was never stopped in his lengthy career, so that's quite a feat considering he fought the likes of Moorer , Holyfield and Morrison in his mid 40. Look at Lewis by the time he faced Vitali, he's only around 37-38? and Lewis was stopped in comparison more than one occassion by who? someone in Ali's level? so in heavyweight, its not easy to never taste a KO defeat especially in you 40 and still fighting regularly. He fought Holyfield when Holyfield was at his very peak. So I give him big credit for being durable but as far as punching power and skills, he's kind off overrated. I'd say his resume post retirement is overrated. He stopped Moorer who started as light heavyweight but because he's 45 at the time, his victory was overblown while its still an great achievement. He achieved little in 80's and 90;s other than that one punch KO against Moorer which even Tua achieved the same feat, only when Moorer didnt have the belt anymore. Sure, some clown think he would beat Tyson and Bowe or even Lewis but how can he do that if he was beaten by Morrison and hardly fought any top contender of that time ? Look at his face after fighting Stewart who only last few secs against Mike. Tyson , Holyfield and Lewis fought so many top contender of their time but how come Foreman never fought 40 years old Holmes at least? Bruno, Smith, Tucker, Dokes, Ruddock, Tua, Golota, Holmes, Rachman, Bowe, Berbrick, Pinklon Thomas,etc... not a single of them in his resume.
George Foreman - Olympic Gold Medalist - Two time linear champion - Only stopped once by an ATG in 80 pro fights - Became oldest man to win lineal title after a ten year absence. - At one point had highest win/stoppage ratio - Beat some damn good fighters In Frazier, Norton, Lyle, Chuvalo, Kirkman, Moorer, Rodriguez, Coetzer, Savarese, and Stewart. He's definitely in my top 10 and no I don't think he's overrated.
Yes , that's what I'm pointing out. Foreman only stopped once and it was by Ali. Lewis was stopped twice by a fighters who's nowhere close to ATG level.
