George Foreman the king of the padded record?

Great points, Mac. Cheers

 

Well put, Boxed!!

 

No. Shannon Briggs. I crimge as I acknowledge he was linear champ.

 

Management still mattered in 76 and beyond. Look at the different path of Sugar Ray Leonard and Howard Davis. They both got big $ and TV expisure but how busy they stayed and quality of opposition varied early in their careers.

As for Seals he could have found a manager that knew boxing. He was nationally known after the Olympiics but chose to stay in Seattle which was just not a boxing hot bed. True he wouldn't have commanded the purses of the 76 guys but his career could have been much better managed .

 

Of course it does. I didn't say it didn't.

 

I'd assumed that the reason George fought mostly subpar fighters in 1971 and 1972 was that he'd secured a spot close to the top of the rankings with the Chuvalo win and secured it with the Kirkman win, both in 1970, and was content to wait for his shot while keeping his name out there against a bunch of no-hopers.

After reading Dubblechin's post, now I'm not sure it was that calculated.

 

There wasn't a whole lot of calculating going on with most fighters careers back then. People knew George from the Olympics. He boxed around the country and they turned out. He was active and got rated for it.

It wasn't like today where people are like, "Well, if I fight for this WBC or IBF regional belt by this number of fights, then I can fight for a Silver or International belt after this many fights, then I can fight an eliminator then I can get a mandatory shot." It was a lot looser.

 

Right. There was no sitting down and planning George’s path and then finding a way to follow that plan.

I’m pretty sure the plan was: this guy can punch through a brick wall, he’s raw and green as hell, let’s keep him in he gym and keep him busy fighting as often as possible to get some experience under his belt as he learns in the gym.

I looked into this a bit not long ago for another thread, but George was the main event of most every show he fought on coming up, at least after the first few bouts, but it was in more out-of-the-way venues like Scranton and St. Paul and Oklahoma City along with a lot of hometown dates in Houston. Not big shows with big names. A lot of them most or all of the undercard was amateur bouts.

When he fought a Wepner or a Peralta or a Chuvalo, it was at Madison Square Garden. Those fights, I’m sure, were negotiated and arranged as step-up bouts to acclimate him not only to better opposition but to the big-fight atmosphere (not mega fight but so he didn’t jump from fighting in front of 200 in Houston to a title fight in front of thousands on TV). I imagine they worked with the Garden matchmaker to figure out dates when they wanted to feature him and to settle on an agreeable opponent.

But I think this approach is a lot better than fighting four times a year against a gradual step-up from beginners to cans to journeymen to fringe contender to contender. He did step up. He just took a lot of stay-busy fights in between, which were also learning experiences because he was so raw and green.

 

A very intelligent fight manager does not throw his fighter into the fire early, he gradually brings his fighter up the ranks slowly, not like in the case of Pete Rademaecher

 

George was only stopped once in 81 bouts (76-5) and that to Ali in Zaire.
He has a lot of journeyman on his record sure, but the man's legendary imo, mainly for his comeback years. He was still formidable at nearly 50 and I thought he beat Briggs in his last outing.

I think off the top of my head, his best 10 wins would probably be something like these: Peralta, Chuvalo, Frazier x 2, Norton, Lyle, Qawi, Cooney, Cooper and Moorer. You could mention Stewart though he looked busted up after that one.

It's not just the wins, some of the losses have to be put into context. Foreman took prime Holyfield the full 12, but, on the other hand, was lucky to get the decision over Axel Schulz. He was past prime then anyway.

When I look at his resume though, I think George is definitely a top 10 ATG.

 

I do think that Big George Foreman deserves to be in the in the Top 10, he lost his title to Muhammad Ali in Oct 1974, but Ali did beat a lot of good fighters, Foreman fell prey to Ali's psychological warfare and Ali was very resourceful in the ring that night, in winning back the title that he never lost in the ring, like I have said before, Ali lost his title to the U. S Government for refusing to fight in Vietnam, in 1967. George did have a dynamite right hand that has rendered many fighters helpless. He also had a good corner and management, D. Sadler and Archie Moore, very experienced. The only thing that Foreman lacked was stamina, because there are some fighters that refuse to go down and are very good boxers as George would later find out against Jimmy Young, in 1977. He also had the hunger, a good fighter needs if he is going to be successful, once the hunger is gone,the success is no longer.

 

I do agree that George didn't fight as many big names as many of his contemporaries, but I think most boxers fight way more nobodies than they do big names. But Foreman still has a pretty good resume: George Chuvalo, Joe Frazier (twice), Ken Norton, Ron Lyle, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Bert Cooper, Gerry Cooney, Alex Stewart, Pierre Coetzer, and Michael Moorer. Certainly not a record to dismiss as unimpressive.

 

So true.

 

George padded his record sure, alotta fighter's did however he was at least 4-0 against the top ten going into the Frazier title match. he had ultra smart strategy of his handlers, he fought who they put in front of him, 37-0 34 knockouts, he did beat 4 contenders from 1970-73 Peralta twice, Chuvalo and Kirkman, IN THE HEAVWEIGHTS only Ali Frazier and Quarry beat 4 in that time span Frazier unified vs Ellis, Bob Foster , and Ali and WBA TENTH RANKED Terry Daniels. Quarry beat ranked Foster, Bodell, Middleton ,Lyle 1970 to Feb 73. Ali probably beat at least 8.

 

I agree with you, posters criticize resumes, but truthfully, like you said, you can only fight what is put in front of you, from your era. A fighter can demand all he wants but it is up to the other fighters management and the promoters, not the fans as everyone wants to believe.