George Foreman vs Larry Holmes - Fight That Never Happened

I see a Foreman victory. Holmes didn't possess the personality of Ali and wouldn't be goaded into a rage to try and break Holmes in half with every punch and thus completely exhaust himself like the situation in Zaire in the Ali fight. I see the Foreman of the Norton and Frazier fights. Clever aggression , forcing Holmes to the ropes and eventually landing a big right hand dropping Holmes. And unlike Shavers (twice) and Snipes, Foreman would be able to take advantage of the situation stopping Holmes with in 11-12 rds. Holmes was a great fighter, but styles make fights, and Holmes would have to fight almost a perfect fight and be on his toes to avoid Foreman over a 15rd fight, he never showed he could fight that way over the distance. And don't forget Foreman had a great jab(not as good as Holmes) himself unlike a Shavers or Snipes, and would be able to set up his right hand behind that jab. Most see what Ali was able to do to Foreman and use that as a measuring stick and An example to how to beat him. But that was Ali. A once in a millennium talent of toughness,guile,speed,and timing . Holmes was never that.

 

Pretty much. Any argument for larry winning, you can make a counter argument for foreman.

-Holmes had an amazing jab with a lot of snap and speed, foremans jab was even stronger than some guy's right hands.

-holmes had good footwork, ok but foreman could cut off the ring.

-holmes was a master technician and foreman lacked defense, ok, but larry was weak to big right hands and foreman was a way better finisher and fighter than snipes or shavers.

Both had great chins, a lot of heart, and got off the floor to win. Theyre the same height and similar weight. Dead even for the most part. Unless foreman catches larry slipping and brutalizes him for a ten count or larry gets foreman to gas hinself out like ali did, it probably goes the distance and the scorecards would be close (in a 12 rounder anyway, 15 rounds id slightly favor larry).

I agree old foreman destroys old larry.

 

Foreman never fought Holmes. His best wins were Frazier and Norton.
Holmes’s resume has a little more depth I should of said.

 

He meant Norton. Foreman's has notably better top end depth but Larry has more consistency.

 

Foreman has notably better top end depth?
Foreman Wins: Frazier 2x, Norton, Lyle

Holmes Wins: Norton, Shavers 2x, Witherspoon, Cooney,

I wouldn’t say notably better if better at all and Holmes defeated lot of quality guys outside of those guys like Weaver, Williams, Berbick, Smith, Snipes, Foreman’s ledger has much bigger drop off .

 

Foreman's wins over Frazier and a peak Norton are better than any of Larry's hence better top end wins. Foreman beat Frazier when he still held the lineal title. Frazier is a great win, a win over an ATG still holding the title. You could also argue peak Lyle to be equal to any of Larry's, or better.

 

The Foreman win over Frazier is a great win even though it was a stylistic nightmare for Frazier. That is the best win of either man I would agree. Outside of that I don’t see much separation. Larry clearly has more top level type wins as he remained champ far longer making many more defenses.

 

Foreman's best win was Frazier. Holmes never beat anyone as good as Frazier. Holmes' best win was a close split decision over Norton, whom Foreman destroyed. Foreman also had the better comeback, regaining the title where Holmes couldn't. Holmes gets a lot of credit for longevity but had Foreman been allowed to defend against loads of Zanon/LeDoux/Rodriguez level opponents he would have reigned for years too, and probably given us some more entertaining knockouts.

I don't see Holmes as being strong or powerful enough to keep someone like Foreman off him and I can't see him successfully fighting Foreman off the ropes like Ali did. People will point to Jimmy Young, but Young and Holmes weren't really that similar. Young was much more cagey and slippery than Holmes. Holmes was also more hittable and could be hurt by fighters of varying punching ability. Snipes, Witherspoon and Shavers all had him badly hurt. If we're including their comebacks then of course there's Tyson who poleaxed him, and even people like Quinn Navarre and Maurice Harris who had him in some trouble.

Bottom line is I see Foreman hurting Holmes at some point. Being the warrior he was, Holmes had a tendency to try and fight his way out of trouble, so he'd start trading with Foreman. Big mistake. It worked against Weaver, but I think it dooms him here.

 

Stylistic advantages don't come into it tho. A top end win is a top end win. One can't take great wins away just because a fighter was arguably suited. Foreman beat an ATG twice, absolutely cleaned the floor with him. He also decimated a better version of Norton than Larry went life and death to beat, which would be Larry's best win.

Of course this doesn't mean Foreman wins, but resume wise (which we are talking) it's obviously relevant.

 

This is quite a post.

 

Just because Foreman regained the title doesn’t necessarily mean he had the better comeback than Holmes. Foreman sold tickets he got the fight vs Moorer coming off a loss to Tommy Morrison. That’s politics.
Holmes in his comeback gave Holyfield all he could handle, had to fight a prime Tyson, schooled Ray Mercer who had just destroyed Morrison.
Again I don’t feel their should be much separation despite the fact Foreman was awarded the chance to face Moorer. I think Holmes vs Moorer would of been interesting as well and Holmes nearly defeated McCall.

 

Foreman had power he could do that, Holmes was a boxer, he is never going to have the same impressive “mop the floor” moments Foreman had. For the record I thought Holmes clearly beat Norton and that the judges had that fight, as great as it was, closer than it should of been.
How much was Frazier partying after the Ali win? A fight that nearly killed him? He made two lackluster defenses before he faced Foreman. Now i’m Not taking away from the win, it’s a great win period. But I don’t believe Frazier was the same fighter Ali faced but even if he was he was he never beats Foreman.
Foreman’s resume has much more padding than Holmes’s resume. Top end names I still think it’s close even though I will concede Frazier is the best win of either man.
Jimmy Young really exposed Foreman sending him into a 10 year retirement. Had Foreman not retired I don’t believe he continues to dominate the division. Ali and Young showed the rest of the field the blue print on big George. Takes a lot to come back from that, I think the retirement was the best thing ever for George. Gave him time to clear his head, learn to pace himself and reinvent himself.
Larry’s run of defenses tips the resume nod in his favor for me. It’s incredibly hard to hold onto something facing good live talent fight after fight that want what you have. That’s why so many fighters are so carefully managed today. And to be fair Holmes did it too following Cooney.

 

A few posters have mentioned the Weaver fight. As I recall, Holmes was battling a cold leading up to that fight and wasn't at his physical best. The fact that Larry was able to pull it out, while sick, against a hungry, well-prepared, future belt holder Weaver speaks volumes. Holmes should be praised for that fight, not denigrated.

 

Why shouldn't Foreman get extra credit for doing something Holmes couldn't do? Moorer was the legit champ and Foreman KO'd him. Could Holmes have beaten Moorer? I don't think so, as Moorer's vulnerability was against bangers and Holmes had very little pop left by then.

It's not like Holmes earned his shot at McCall either. His last fight was against Jesse Ferguson, who pretty much everyone was beating at that point in time (apart from Ray Mercer...). McCall was just looking for a soft touch first defence and Holmes' name added a bit more credibility.

Holmes' own record has quite a lot of padding. Just look at who he gave title shots to: Zanon, Evangelista, Ocasio, Cobb, LeDoux, Rodriguez, Bey, Frank, Frazier, etc. This and his absolute refusal to entertain rematches after close/disputed wins or unification bouts with the WBA champs likely extended his reign by a few years.