George Foreman vs Lennox Lewis

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sweet Science, Aug 23, 2007.



  1. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jimbo, I don't know what you do for a living but I know you're not an analyst. You have admitted you weren't around in the 70's, but I was. And I can say beyond a doubt that a prime Lewis was faster than Foreman. I'd bet my house on this and I've seen both fight extensively. Tell me which fights prove Foreman was faster than Lewis.

    Is Lewis stronger? I think so and so does the Ring magazine which did a mythical match up between the two fighters and picked Lewis to win, partly because it was felt Lewis was stronger. So if you disagree, fine, bring forth some evidence to back up your opinions. And certainly no boxing fan would ever call Lewis opponents (or any boxer for that matter) bums. Ruddock was no bum, neither was Golota or Morrison, or Bruno or Briggs. If you're not a boxing fan just say so..calling boxers bums certainly doesn't make you a fan in my books. And as far as Ali goes, don't put him on a pedestal. Yes he was good but he wasn't perfect and he had trouble against various styles.

    As far as this theory that boxers have gotten worse because there's more options for big men to go into other sports, any empirical evidence to back this up? Or is this just a hypothesis you've dreamt up. Surely an intelligent young man like yourself can cite some studies to back up your claims..so let's see them.
     
  2. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    BTW, I'm in the camp that thinks Foreman would have beaten Ali in a rematch, so I have a great deal of respect for Foreman. But I respect Lewis also, and in a head to head match up I'd pick Lewis, knowing that Foreman could win if things unfolded his way. But if I were putting on odds it would be 55-45 in favour of Lewis, so a Foreman win wouldn't be a huge upset in my books.
     
  3. JimboDs

    JimboDs So-called expert Full Member

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    Strength and punching power are not the same thing first of all. Second, show me someone who says Lewis hit as hard as Foreman and I'll show you someone who is delusional. You want a study to back that up? Well, I can't go back to Foreman v. Frazier I and snatch him out of the ring and put them both in front of an electronic dummy. However, I've never see Lewis Lewis hit anyone the way Foreman did. If you do, I'd be happy to watch it. I'll eat my words.

    Lewis was a solid boxer, but he did not have the foot speed and lateral movement to keep a vicious puncher like foreman off balance. He would not be able to avoid getting hit by Foreman. One thing you'll notice about Foreman's fights (as with prime Tyson) is that guys go into panic mode the first time they get hit because they'd never been hit that hard.

    Foreman's power would be too much. Lewis got knocked out by Rahman for god's sake.

    Lewis would have to physically dominate Foreman in order to win. That's something nobody ever managed to do.
     
  4. Bonedaddy

    Bonedaddy New Member Full Member

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    Lewis by late KO. His size and reach would have meant George would be unlikely to bully him like most of his opponents. Its also worth mentioning Foremans inability to throw straight punches. His wide arcing style I think would leave too many gaps for the much more technically gifted Lewis to exploit with his superior speed. That said, a punchers fight is never lost till the fat lady sings...what a mouth watering prospect the fight would be...
     
  5. JimboDs

    JimboDs So-called expert Full Member

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    It's not something that there's studies about lying around. However, I don't think human beings have become less athletic in the last 25 years, but there's obviously been a big decline in the level of athleticism among heavyweights.

    I don't think it's a stretch at all to say that a great athlete with the size to play football would be stupid to go into boxing instead. There's no college scholarships for boxing, so if you're poor (like most boxers are) you would have to make it as a pro or you're screwed. In boxing, one would have to make it all the way to the top and be marketed the right way before he would have a chance at making the kind of money NFL players make today. Your odds are better in team sports and at least there's that college safety net.
     
  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    Agreed,

    and eliminating sports all together as a career, most young blacks, hispanics, and less fortunate whites, have more educational and vocational options than they did 30 years ago. There are a lot more financial aid funds available for low income families to send kids to school and get jobs down the road. Also, I don't think that there are too many boxing gyms or park district programs anymore where boxing is concerned. At one point, every neighborhood in every city had a Gym on the corner.
     
  7. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oT7-KU3sjkM

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OQrgv5MemE


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uHzFd7MOuYU&mode=related&search=


    Oh, and Lewis DID have the speed of foot and lateral movement if he wanted to stay away. Watch his fight with Tua for instance. Or his rematch with McCall, or with Rahman.
    The punch that finished Rahman looked and sounded more deadly than any punch Foreman ever landed.
     
  8. JimboDs

    JimboDs So-called expert Full Member

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    Really? I was more impressed by the Foreman uppercuts that lifted a 200+ man off of the floor.

    Foreman had destructive power in every punch he threw. Not just overhand straights.

    I will admit that I was wrong about the speed, as I haven't seen Lewis fight in a while. I still think he gets overpowered easily in this fight.

    You'll never convince me that Lewis was even close to having the same power as Foreman, but you can keep trying if you want to.
     
  9. Bo Bo Olson

    Bo Bo Olson Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Wow, a 200 pound fighter just lifted a 180 pound fighter off his feet with an upper cut...:admin :admin :admin so what.

    That is the same as a Foreman at 220 doing a 200 pound fighter.

    What I'm saying is Foreman is not now a HUGE heavy like he was back then....neither is a 210-15 pound HUGE Liston.

    Today Foreman is Average sized and light...so today being so SMALL, some folks would have to say he would need to depend on his Speed....

    Liston would be told today to go down to Cruiser.

    Ali also said Patterson hit hard...

    No Lewis would beat the hell out of Valuov, same as either Klitchko. Forman or Liston would also, along with Frazer, Patterson, and Tyson, and Witherspoon....Holms...
    Valuov vs TINY Carrarea.....:hi: :hi: :hi:
    In fact in todays ring, he'd not be noticed for much, in that there are 2 or so 7 footers and a few guys 6 foot 7-8.

    1970 as hard as it is to immagine, the best athletes were even then playing football, baseball and basketball...by way of collage. They had affermitive action also...
     
  10. Vanboxingfan

    Vanboxingfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You have absolutely no evidence that Foreman hit harder than Lewis, all you have is a biased opinion. Personally I think that they are in the same ball park although I don't mind giving the edge to Foreman in that department. But as you yourself admitted, speed goes to Lewis and boxing skills also go to Lewis. As does height and reach advantage. So while I'm not saying Foreman can't win, the cards are certainly stacked against him. As for the chin arguement that's a two edge sword, yes Lewis was down twice and didn't get up, but Foreman was down more and he too didn't get up against Ali. And if one says that's a stamina rather than a chin issue, fine, then the stamina edge goes to Lewis as well.
     
  11. JimboDs

    JimboDs So-called expert Full Member

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    There's no tangible evidence in existence to say Lewis was stronger, Foreman was stronger, or they were even. So, I guess you're right there. It seems pretty clear to me, but apparently that's not everyone's perception. We can argue that point to death, but it doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere.

    As far as picking the fight, I do believe (based on what evidence is available) that Foreman was much more capable of knocking Lewis out than vice versa. Lewis was knocked out by lesser fighters than Foreman and though skilled, I don't see him being able to avoid taking big shots from him. If he somehow managed to, he'd win on points or by very late KO since he's the faster fighter and a more solid boxer. I would put my money on Foreman KO any day of the week though.
     
  12. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    James " Quick" Tillis beats them both.

    .......End of Story.........
     
  13. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Lewis was 6'5" with an 84" reach. Foreman was 6'3 1/2" with an 80" reach. This is hardly a gap that would make Foreman "small" to Lewis. Lewis' height/reach edge here isn't substantial enough to realistically think he could just keep Foreman at the end of his jab and control him outside his range.
    I also don't think Lewis' right hand can really be too well compared with Ali's, which was lighter, but much faster and sharper, as well as Young's. Foreman was very rusty and under-confident going into the Lyle match.


    I think this is mainly where I would differ. Foreman was recklessly aggressive, durable and an incredible powerhouse, and Lewis- particularly the Lewis of the Golota fight- was not a defensive genius, nor was he small and quick on his feet, nor was he durable enough to stand up to much direct exposure to Foreman's offense. I think he'd have a chance at sniping George from long-range, but Foreman's chin would be much more reliable against Lewis' shots than vice versa, I reckon. I'm tending to think Foreman takes him out around the fourth or fifth, although likely not without first eating a lot of leather and being more than a little queasy himself.
     
  14. Bigcat

    Bigcat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Lewis would outrate George over 9 rounds and George would run out of ideas and finally run out of gas through chasing the moving punching Lewis..

    Lennox via stoppage in 10..

    George walking through treacle by the end and his punches becoming sporadic .. His face looking reminisscent of the night Alexis Stewart took him to the limit..
     
  15. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    I just said "small" because Foreman's nickname is "big", one of his great assets, size, would actually be a disadvantage in this fight instead of the usual advantage.


    Ali's right hand was somewhat quicker than Lewis', but Ali was 32 at that point and to be honest i don't think that there's all that much between them. Watch Lewis KO Botha with a quick right, or Ruddock. Or Golota.
    And it's not like Ali had to hide in a shelter after landing a right hand. Foreman was completely off balance with his ridiculous "i stick my glove in the air" defense, which works against a swarmer like Frazier but not a skilled boxer of his own size who easily penetrates that defence. Ali got through something like 14 right hands in the first round alone, without all that much retaliation. Foreman, as durable as he is, is not gonna eat 14 right hands from Lennox Lewis.

    Lewis may not have been a defensive genius, but he was very hard to hit. The only time he came close to losing a decision (=getting hit much) was when he fought Mercer's fight up close. Obviously he's gonna lose if he fights like that against Foreman, although Foreman does not have Mercer's durability, but he does have a lot more power.

    And Lewis actually was a lot quicker of foot than Foreman. Ali was exagarrating with the zombie-imitation on Foreman, but there is a grain of truth in it; he's flat footed as hell and not mobile. He did try to box on his toes at times but that didn't work at all.


    Also i think you're exagarrating Foreman's durability. Mind you, Foreman was down 4 times in a timespan of 7 years, fighting about 6 ranked contenders.
    By comparison, Lewis was down 2 times in a timespan of 13 years, fighting about 19 ranked contenders. You can say that Foreman was tired, but this is also part of durability. He was a lot more durable in his comeback, but unless you want to put that version of Foreman in with Lewis, it's pretty much irrelevant here. Foreman was down regularly because of his horrible balance and pacing/stamina. And those problems he will also have when he faces Lewis.