George Foreman vs Mike Tyson - the fight that never happened

Look at what Evander did to Tyson: dominated and knocked him out and made him quit (via DQ) in their second meeting.

 

What’s your point Pat? Mine is that Evander was able to land unanswered punches in the double digits on Old Foreman, I think Tyson was as capable and I don’t think anyone survives that from Tyson IMO, I think George could endure that because A he had a good chin but B because Evander was a bit of an arm puncher.

 

My point is if what happened when George fought Evander is germane to a Foreman-Tyson fight, then what happened when Tyson fought Evander is also.

What does it have to do with Foreman-Tyson?

Well for starters, Evander pushed Tyson around and hit him with clean, solid shots throughout. We know Tyson didn’t fight well going backward … if Holyfield can back him up and land cleanly, I figure George could do the same.

I don’t think that Evander landing unanswered punches in double digits on Foreman means that Tyson could also do so — Holyfield was much more of a sustained combination puncher (see Qawi I for evidence) than Tyson was … I don’t recall Mike ever running that many punches on anyone or even throwing that many in succession.

Evander was an in-and-out guy who was able to maneuver into position to do that. Tyson not so much. He was mostly a straight-line fighter who would throw a couple and then fall inside (and not work). See him vs. Bonecrusher, a strong guy with similar stature to Foreman. Except Foreman was way more willing to let his bombs go throughout every stage of his career than Smith.

 

That’s interesting - I’ve always respected your opinion but I disagree. Evander stuck to a very good plan for a 90s Tyson one that I don’t think Foreman could perform… Foreman was never much of an inside fighter at any point in his career and never exhibited that type of strategy.
I don’t think Evander set his punches up as cleverly as Tyson was capable of either… Foreman in the comeback worked hard behind his jab, he was also pretty slow which would be dangerous here with someone like Mike it was his bread and butter - The reason I think Tyson didn’t land that many unanswered punches on an opponent is because he didn’t need to? But about straight lines, I think it’s incredibly likely Foreman accidentally helps Tyson out here, he always tried to get guys back into the range the 80s Tyson loved to operate out of but again it’s just my know nothing opinion.

 

Your opinion is just as valid as mine: we’re obviously projecting here on how we think it would go.

I think ‘young’ George Foreman outmuscles and outslugs Tyson and takes him out.

Older George is an interesting proposition. There are certainly versions of Tyson whom I think he’d beat and others where I seriously doubt it, but post-Spinks Tyson was beginning to be ready for the taking as he was more and more relying on his power with his technique and training slipping.

Old George to me was a very high-IQ fighter who would probably also have an edge over Tyson in the mental game. I think it’s possible he maneuvers a less-than-prime Mike into a trap and turns out the lights. I also think Tyson’s head movement was inconsistent at best and forgotten after a round or two more often, and George’s jab would have been troublesome for him. That said, it’s also possible that Tyson is explosive enough and powerful enough to flip the switch for his own KO.

But of course neither of us knows.

 

Not directly responding to all of this, I think we’ve respectfully reached the conclusion of the discussion (I might try to come back to it) but Tyson fighting in spurts is true and not mentioned too often, he could lapse if he wasn’t kept busy in a fight which is why I think he’d look better fighting 70s Foreman then Old Foreman he could just get lazy and frustrated if he couldn’t get rid of a guy or they didn’t open up enough (that was his fault for biting and trying to counter on every jab, guys just threw less) which sort of contains the Holyfield fight, he got mauled, smothered and roughed up on the inside and wasn’t able to take Holy out or get ahead, he plain fought like someone who was irritated and the volume kept pouring in. Holyfield just wouldn’t let the fight go to Tyson’s range of operation. You’re a smart fella who has been around the game, a valuable resource to the forum, respectful and modest as always Pat.

 

I respect your contributions and opinions too, pal!

On the Holyfield fight, I’ll just add this: It’s one of the more remarkable executions of a carefully crafted game plan that was meant to exploit and expose an opponent’s weaknesses as we’ve seen. A few features:

1) To prepare for Tyson’s patented bombs-away fast start, Holyfield sparred specifically for the start of the fight — situational sparring. They’d have the sparring partner bolt out of the corner and launch an all-out attack for 30 seconds and then ring the bell. Then do it again, and again, switching spar mates in and out to keep them fresh.

Don Turner, Evander’s trainer at the time, said it wasn’t going well and Holy was just starting too slow and not weathering it well up until about two weeks before the fight — then the light bulb came on and he got it. Started adjusting to the immediate fast start and handling it. Repetition is the best teacher.

2) Turner noticed how Tyson would often square up with his feet when he got close/inside and knew Mike couldn’t fight backing up and wouldn’t adjust well to being manhandled. So they drilled Holyfield on getting his left (lead) knee basically right between Tyson’s legs, pushing off the back foot and walking him back over and over again. If your feet are square (as opposed to one being more in front of the other) and your foe positions himself this way and pushes, you have no choice but to go backwards — it’s not so much strength as it is leverage, and Holyfield gave Tyson the impression that he was that much stronger and physically imposing by being able to shove him around so easily … made Tyson feel like he was the weaker guy.

Also, but positioning himself with his left knee between Tyson’s legs, he took away Mike’s uppercuts. It basically creates a geometry where it’s impossible to throw an effective uppercut (you could throw an arm punch uppercut from that but not really plant and dig to throw it with authority).

Those two major keys — surviving Tyson’s fast start and manhandling him by pushing him around — dictated the fight. I don’t know what sort of game plan Mike had for either fight, but there wasn’t one evident. He was, compared to Holyfield especially, a low-ring IQ fighter and didn’t appear to have any specific tactics or plan of attack tailored to his opponent … more like ‘just go throw some punches and try to take him out.’

Unless you count ear biting, you won’t see any adjustments by Tyson in either fight.

 

This is a class post, all on the mark and I agree with all of it. I barely contribute anything to tell the truth I’m just a cheerleader for the business I love and an internet quarterback mostly. You’re one of those guys who has etched a mark in boxing we are all discussing YOUR world, I don’t know who you trained, who you might’ve fought any of that stuff but you’re part of the quasi intangible, historic, energy and tradition shared by immortals like Sam Langford. Thanks for everything bud.

 

Sam Langford would have kicked my ass for sure, haha.

I’m 60 and there’s a part of me that thinks I’d like to retire in 5 years or so and get back to the gym and see if I could have one more run as a trainer. But it’s easy to forget all the frustrations and the broken heart that comes with working and sacrificing to get someone on an upward track and them walk away from the sport or lose their dedication because they fell in love or found drugs or booze or whatever.

We would often joke, ‘the ones who are most dedicated, that you can most count on to show up every day and do everything you ask and pour their body and soul into boxing … are usually the ones without any talent,’ haha.

For everyone who made your blood pump to get back into the gym and work with them again day after day, there were also asses and psychos who made you dread them walking in. Tis the way of boxing.

(Also I don’t think I’m financially set enough to retire that soon anyway. I’ve started making a good bit more money the last few years and have been assured that I haven’t maxed my earning potential in my chosen profession and company, and I get as much fulfillment from doing that as I did boxing, albeit in a different way. As a manager, now I ‘coach coaches’ — the managers below me — as well as ‘coaching fighters,’ the workers below them and a handful who report directly to me.’ So I get to express myself in a coaching way, and in the final analysis, coaching is coaching whether it’s boxing or my profession.)

One thing I do miss is the evaluation and ‘what do I do with this guy’ (or girl) part. Someone walks into the gym, start showing them some basics and then I’d sit back and watch for a couple of weeks while they got their feet under them and found their style, so to speak. Tall, short, puncher, workout/endurance freak, whatever — I always felt like an artist starting at a pile of clay trying to figure out how to sculpt it. What can this beginner be good at, what are his/her weaknesses — how do I teach them a style that maximizes the former and hides the latter?

 

Last few posts of this thread is everything that is beautiful about this place. Kudos guys.

 

https://www.boxingforum24.com/search/115908831/?q=tyson+foreman&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=12
Tyson or Foreman is forever an intriguing topic.

 

If that was directed at @Saintpat and I, thank you for your polite words, If we haven't spoken before it is nice to "meet" you if we have and I have forgotten my apologises. Enjoy your time here in this zany place.

 

Sam Langford would kill the entire Forum in it's prime over a weekend (Guys like Witherspoon excluded lol) don't feel bad haha - thanks for sharing Pat it's always enlightening to hear from the teachers perspective.

 

WTF? Ruddock, Smith, Bruno?.are you serious?
George is the GOAT heavyweight puncher as proven against Hall Of Famers.
You don't half talk shisenhausen.

 

Do you know what it means "leagues above them" ?
Even if you consider Foreman the hardest puncher ever, that doesn't mean he hit far harder than everyone else. And especially proven big punchers like Smith, Bruno and Ruddock.