George Foreman vs Oleksandr Usyk

Savarese was journeyman level, the elite heavyweights Foreman beat were indeed little if any bigger than todays cruiserweights. Savarese's wins did not include formidable opposition.

 

wtf do you think chisora is? and again 36-0. show me todays journeymans with that record.

 

36-0 with no wins of consequence. Don't see how Chisora is relevant when I would pick Usyk's cruiserweight competition to beat Savarese. Briedis and Gassiev would be huge favorites over Savarese

 

Prime Ali was Ali right before prison. He wasn't as quick or mobile in the 70s. I agree with you and I'd favor Usyk to beat all of prime Ali's opponents incuding Sonny Liston but not ALL of Ali's opponents. Frazier would completely mow Usyk down, Frazier will match his pace, pin him down and completely batteer him on the ropes and Usyk will do nothing but shell up like he always does and Norton would walk him down like he did Ali and Holmes and give him hell. Quarry is around Breidis tier, Jimmy Young is FAR quicker than Michael Hunter, knows how to infight and posseses even better head movement and Ron Lyle showed decent handspeed, fundamentals and power against Ali himself in ths 70s. Bellew was completely outboxing and countering Usyk but gassed and got KO'd. Ali was much better than Bellew and had a much better gas tank. Ali would win a competitive decision. Usyk would give Ali issues but Ali was quicker, had faster feet, better head movement and more fluidity and when you compare footage of the two, all of that is clear.

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And if you want footage of him fighting a skilled SHW here's Ali way past his prime beating 6'4, 230lb Joe Bugner

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Why do you put those two videos side by side ? You comparing Fight of the year to average Usyk fight with bias highlights ? for what reason ?

 

Frazier had a very dodgy defence. As for pressure, you are underestimating the physical presence even crude boxers like Chisora can apply in spurts.
Usyk is at his most vulnerable during the first few rounds but so is Frazier.

Briedis is better than Quarry.

We fundamentally disagree then.

Ali had "cuter" movements but his footwork wasn't perfect. Usyk is fast as hell. The disparity in speed, if any, is not drastically large.
Usyk is the better combination puncher.

Ali's defence is worse. Usyk's is boring but more sound.
Ali moved his head a lot but his leanback style has issues, and he kept his hands low.

 

uh,,,,Young is far,far,far more proven than Usyk and the reason you said for me to not say that was you know it's true too.

 

He had dodgy defense ? His defense was better than Breidis and he is a better pressure fighter than anybody Usyk has ever faced. He bobbed and weaved moving forward and Usyk does not possess the power to keep him at bay, Ali had faster hands, you can look at the footage yourself and he hit about as hard as Holyfield according to prime Foreman. he pinned down Ali who has faster feet than Usyk himself. Chisora is a damn plodder who can only sustain a pressure pace for 4 or 5 rounds before gassing our his ass. He is bigger and stronger than Frazier but doesn't have as good of head movement as Frazier.

The reality is you said it yourself. Usyk and Frazier are both slow starters. So it doesn't change much. Usyk is a southpaw and would be a target for the left hook. Usyk has issues when Briedis marched forward and pinned him on the ropes, he shelled up and got battered EVERY SINGLE TIME Breidis pressed the issue and didn't back up. You can watch the entire fight yourself. I'll give you two clips, there are a lot more where that came from if you want more.

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Now imagine if Breidis sustained that pressure for all 12 rounds and didn't let up once, now imagine if Breidis bobbed and weaved his head while doing it, now imagine if Breidis cut off the ring better, actually he didn't need to because Usyk couldn't dance around him under pressure lol, Now imagine breidis working the body while having Usyk on the ropes. Now imagine if Breidis had a powerful left hook. Thats Frazier

Based on what ? Quarry holds wins over Mac Foster, Buster Mathis and Ron Lyle, 2 of which are legit heavyweights and not cruiserweights

Then you disgree with everybody. Almost everyone had Bellew up before the KO. At the very least it was 4 rounds to 3 in favor of Usyk and Bellew is a few levels bellow Ali in every department

His footwork isn't better than Usyks but he had quicker feet and had better mobility in general. There is a noticeable difference in foot speed, i gave you a video to compare both.

Is there anything wrong with keeping your hands low ? Tyson Fury does it. Ali knew how to slip and roll shots as well from side to side, and leaning back worked fine, even against taller opponents because he did it quickly, extremely quickly. Is that a problem for this hypothetical match up ? Is Usyk significantly taller than Ali ? Does he have a significantly longer reach ? Is he faster than Ali ? I dont remember Joe Bugners size giving Ali issues or anybody else that was around his size or larger. pressure fighters gave him the most issues if anything.

 

Frazier's face got busted up even in the fights he won. He often got stuck in the same up-down pattern which allowed people to hit him.
Anyway, I was comparing Quarry and Briedis. Quarry had a truly bad defence.

I don't see it at all. Usyk doesn't throw as many straight punches but his flurries are very fast.

This is exactly what he did. For the first few rounds he was exerting himself to the limit because he wasn't going to decision Usyk.
Bigger men are a lot better at pressuring.

You posted his fight against Chisora, who tried to impose his size in the first few rounds. Frazier isn't going to effectively pressure Usyk when he himself is at his most vulnerable.

I would rather re-watch the entire match.

You were mocking Chisora, and now you are bringing up Mathis?
If you are going to big up marquee names then at least mention champions, not Foster and Mathis.

Sounds like the Canelo-Khan logic. "He would have won if he had not been knocked out".
"Outboxing" implies Usyk couldn't find a way to work around Bellew's plan. I had it 4-3 for Bellew, before he got flattened.

Fury is the tallest man around.

In bunches, definitely.

 

He got his face busted up ? Didn't matter though because he outworked his opponents regardless.

Show me a clip up Usyk throwing quicker flurries than Ali. I want to see it, because i dont see it. Usyk is a better counterpuncher and combination puncher but he's not quicker.

Exerting himself to the limit ? LOL. You mean 37 year old Chisora boxing in his normal style ? Dont remember prime Chisora beating 210 pound David Haye even though David Haye isn't as mobile as Ali or has half the head movement but their "SO MUCH BETTER" you know I've heard a lot of crap from you comparing the size difference between Ali and super heavyweights to Ali and Roy Jones Jr and more. Do you comprehend the concept of diminishing returns ? Look it up.

Frazier isn't going to effectively pressure Usyk ? LOL. Breidis did it and he isn't even a good pressure fighter. You're chatting nonsense. If Usyk has such elite movement than why did tuck up on the ropes when Breidis was on the front foot relentlessly, EVERY SINGLE TIME. You want to know why ? Because he doesn't do good when he's forced backwards, just like Lomachenko, who is trained by the same person. thats why Chisora gave him so much trouble early on, not because of his size, Chisoras size was only a problem in the clinches, not in terms of pressure fighting. If size mattered that much Haye would have gotten destroyed. How is he going to keep Frazier off of him ? Ali couldn't keep Frazier at bay even when Frazier was starting slow, what is Usyk going to do ? He shelled up when Breidis pressed the action. How will he deal with Frazier ? Explain please

i gave you that option dufus

Breidis is not a pressure fighter at all but the spots he barley mimicked Frazier against Usyk, he gave him hell.

Im just using your logic, Chisora has beaten nobody of note and never won a title but you guys act like he's a beast. Mathis was a legit 6'3, 240 pound heavyweight who had better fundamentals, quicker hands and better head movement than Chisora and gave Frazier a good fight, was even ahead on the cards before the stoppage. Also fun fact. Ali toyed with Mathis. Also Lyle gave Foreman hell.
Lets compare some highlights between Chisora and Mathis

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Outboxing implies Bellew outlanded and outworked Usyk for more rounds than Usyk oulanded and outworked him. Stop making up your own definitions. He found a way because Bellew gassed under pressure. Ali is better than Bellew in every way possible and wouldn't gas. He also had a better chin than Bellew. Thats the entire point. Knock knock, Do you get it now ?

Like i said. Explain, how is Ali having his hands low a problem for THIS match up ? Bellew also kept his hands low and gave Usyk hell, had nothing to do with him gassing though. is a high guard far superior to the low guard ? Ali used it perfectly fine.

 

precisely. thats why i was telling markuz its a waste of time debating certain subjects here, when this is the level of understanding on the forum. a+b discussions only, unless you already know whos beyond that level. and i do.

 

Well according to my research Savarese did beat Lance Whitaker, a fat Buster Douglas and shot to bits Tim Witherspoon but thats a better resume that what Chisora has so I'll take it

 

also, todays cruisers are too much for yesterdays hw's, but yesterdays super hw's arent enough for todays cruisers. how you like that level of logic?

 

To be honest with you based on the eye test Savarese looks to be a good level above Chisora. The man got toyed with by Pulev and lost to Kabayel. His only notable win is Takam and Savareses win over undefeated Whitaker is better and possibly is win over fat Douglas too.

Chisora is a warrior and you know it'll be a good night when he shows up but he is so overrated. He's literally just this era's version of Bert Cooper.

 

reasons hes so overated is cause hes a brit, usyk beat him, and these fanboys dksab.