George Foreman Vs Rocky Marciano

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sizzle, Sep 5, 2007.

  1. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    A one handed fighter without at least a threat of a right hand is at a significant disadvantage. Just sayin.
     
  2. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    It's really not a knock on Marciano to pick Foreman to stop him early. George was a force of nature, an absolute terror in the ring during his prime. Anyone who crouches in front of him would probably pay for it.
    Foreman's wheelhouse was down low in those uppercut with both hands. Heavy hands, he could move his opponent with glancing blows. Joe Frazier had a concrete chin and he took some shots but some punches literally knocked him down. Force of the blow itself. His chin didn't have anything to do with it.
     
  3. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Omg. You like putting words in peoples mouths that they didn’t say. I never mentioned anything about Louis being some power threat at the time just that he was good enough to go 8-0 w 3kos (correcting your stement of 1 ko). Before he met w Rocky. Obviously that’s not some weak babe in the woods. Nor was he close to prime. I never said a gazelle punch was the sole reason he was comfortable at fighting at any range. It was one example. I mentioned his ability to counter with lefts and his over hand right made him comfortable enough. I told you to watch ANY Marciano fight if you can’t find an example in ANY fight available your a liar. And for the third time I’ll tell you to watch Marciano Charles 2 KO and Lastarza KO for good movement. That’s not even the whole fight of which you may learn something.
     
  4. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The guy was favourite to win though! How is Louis not world class, he’s beat the EBU world champion, is rated #1, 8-0 since losing to Charles, and has two wins over the guy who beat Charles for the title!

    but it’s not a waste of time if, while technically true, the declining fighter is as good as any other contender! And if the guy is still the official favourite to beat a future champion.

    The important thing is context. A guy can knockout a long list of imported losers with no appetite to win until the first guy who wants to win takes him the distance. This means the reality is he’s had one competitive fight. And all the previous bouts meant nothing. You can’t gage stats like this. The job of Referees is to stop bouts when a guy can no longer defend himself. The knockout is coming anyway. To listen to you it’s only a knockout if it happens unexpectedly.

    one guy punching guys tied to a chair would have a 100% Kayo ratio. It means nothing. You can’t treat stats like this. People don’t.

    several? As in not all of them? you haven’t seen all of them? Why are you debating people who have seen all of the available filmed fights like you know what you are talking about? Is it because 5’10”, 69” reach, 184lb is all you need to know?

    we must not forget you also said they “steamroll” Joe Louis.
     
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  5. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I don't think you understand what burden of proof is. I have watched several Rocky fights and I do not recall him ever being great on the outside or while using lateral movement. You saying wAtCh AnY rOcKy FiGhT is a cop out because you have failed to provide a specific example after I asked you like 4x. If it was so obvious and clear as day you should be able to provide plenty of examples or at least one.

    I don't remember him having great movement in Charles 2 or Lastarza he got hit a lot in both fights. In fact, he was on the verge of being stopped in the Charles fight. The point of having good movement is to avoid getting hit. :lol:

    You didn't correct my statement of 1 KO because to claim he had 3 KO's is factually incorrect. He factually had 1 KO and two TKO's. A knockout suggests that the opponent was either rendered unconscious or was given a 10 count and they failed to stand up. Any grandma at a grocery store can tell you this.

    I can see this is pointless to continue because me asking simple direct questions and pointing out basic facts and terminology is somehow me being mean and overbearing so I'll leave it at that.
     
  6. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    At this point I must be getting trolled. You really don’t know half as much boxing as you think you do and your reading comprehension is horrendous. I gave you fine examples of lateral movement. You’re refusing to admit your wrong is leading me to believe you’re a waste of time. Being wrong is ok just own it when you have to and move on
     
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  7. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    But that's YOUR opinion that Louis was as good as any other contender. SEVERAL people disagree with you on this point.

    So I stand by what I said, Louis being past his prime and looking very vulnerable is very relevant in me dismissing him as an example of Rocky beating a 200 pound contender. At least in terms of h2h. Louis was not a threat when it came to power and the right side of his body. I don't get why this is so confusing.

    That's not what I said at all. Did you notice you have a habit of adding your own criteria and conditions to what somebody said instead of simply reading what they wrote, digesting it, and moving on? You added the extra criteria of a guy knocking out 20 imported losers and I never said that.

    My point had nothing to do with this side ramble you brought up. I'm well aware that a KO% can be inflated and deceptive without context.

    My point was that, all things being equal and against a similar level of opposition, one guy scoring 20 brutal knockouts and another guy scoring 20 TKO's where very few opponents get dropped, it's pretty obvious which guy has more raw punching power. That's it. No need to make it anymore complicated or start a whole nother conversation.

    See above. This has absolutely nothing to do with the point I was making distinguishing a guy who has mostly TKO's or decisions vs a guy with KO's on his record. Why would you automatically assume in the example I gave that the opponents are all bums or go to an exaggerated extreme of somebody tied to a chair--which literally never happens in boxing?

    And you wonder why people get tired of talking to you.

    Do I need to watch Rocky knockout some obscure bum with 30+ losses to gain more insight into how he fights?

    I've seen all the available fights on youtube. I've seen Rocky in his most important fights at the world level. I read his biography and read the reports. I've seen many break downs of his style. I saw how he struggled with men nearly 40 who were heavily shopworn and were under 200 lbs. He went life and death with them and missed by a mile swinging crudely and getting nailed by counters. This does not give me much confidence picking him against men who are anywhere from 30-50 lbs heavier with a significant advantage in power, speed, and skill.

    I didn't forget. Most of the men on that list would either steam roll that version of Louis or pick him apart and shut him out.
     
  8. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You literally haven't provided any specific examples. I've begged you about 5x now and then you mentioned Charles 2, a fight where he had a cut so bad he nearly got stopped, and Lastarza a fight where he pressured his opponent with non stop aggression, as evidence he had good lateral movement. You have yet to provide any evidence of him being good on the outside.

    But you think I'M the one whose trolling. Ok bud.
     
  9. MR_TUT

    MR_TUT Member banned Full Member

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    Dont go to his level for the fight the mans a life time idiot you will stand no chance! ignore the willow and move on
     
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Rocky made him look vulnerable. Louis still had enough to be chosen favourite to win here. This isn’t a lie. This is a fact.

    yes.

    even the ones who didn’t steamroll anyone else? Come on. You can’t see the sense here. You are comparing guys with wins no more impressive or important than Louis’ 1951 run being guaranteed to steamroll Louis. They can barely match these wins.
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Says who? You are the guy who won’t reveal himself. Writing in funny colours. They seek him here they seek him there. But who is this scarlet pimpernel?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2021
  12. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He looked vulnerable because he was shot and gunshy. He was already rapidly declining long before the Rocky fight and hadn't been using his right hand as much and those blistering combinations were being seen less and less. This is well documented by boxing historians.

    You are talking out of your ass.

    No, I really don't I've seen the best Rocky can do, all his best fights are on youtube. He doesn't stand a chance in this fight h2h and I'm not going to go back and forth with you on this because it's a waste of time. Rocky knocking out some bum with 30 losses who isn't 6'3 and isn't a world champion and isn't over 200 lbs would tell me absolutely nothing about Rocky's chances.

    Pick your poison. I said the men on that list either steamroll Louis or pick him apart. I noticed you lacked the balls to make a thread pitting them against Louis in a poll so that tells me everything. They each have multiple wins more impressive than a gunshy 1 armed old Louis.
     
  13. Bah Lance

    Bah Lance Active Member banned Full Member

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    Dude...I'm not trying to argue with you. Again where has it been claimed Louis was going into the Marciano fight with an injury? I'm generally curious. I've only seen speculation that I believe to be misguided, is there something concrete on this I'm missing?
     
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  14. MR_TUT

    MR_TUT Member banned Full Member

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    Me who will not reveal himself? Okay why don't you reveal yourself? why doesn't everyone?
    I reckon its because they want to remain anonymous like most people on the internet willow.
     
  15. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Was not Ken Norton stopped by Jose Luis Garcia in 1970?