George Foreman Vs Rocky Maricano

But I didn't read McVey's post, I didn't even know you were talking to McVey.

Look, you can chose to believe you are the victim of (another) conspiracy or take me at my word. I don't care.

 

Not by my reckoning, but okay. Charles was past his prime, which seems to have precluded Frazier from being a valid foil for Marciano though, so I have no idea how Walcott and he are somehow clues to Marciano beating Foreman but Frazier doesn't represent a clue as to why Foreman would beat Marciano. That seems ridiculous to the point of stupidity to me.

Of course it is, all style advantages work in generalities, and all remain true. A style advantage IS a style advantage!

They were both punching swarmers, they were both two-handed. Frazier had a vastly superior left hook to Marciano's, Marciano had a vastly superior right hand to Joe Frazier's.

Most important of all, both were swarmers up against one of the best pure puncher's in the history of the division. Colossal advantage.

Marciano is not a defensive genius either. Foreman has a better chin. OK, how about this - can you name an occasion at heavyweight where a MUCH bigger man who is also a MUCH bigger puncher, who has a clearly denoted and accepted style advantage, who has the edge in punch resistance has EVER won a victory over a heavyweight in his class? It doesn't even have to be world class - i'm talking about comparable class only. Are there any examples of this, at all, in all of history?

I don't even agree with you that "Rocky gets hit less." Rocky's two best performances? Because it's a god-damn certitude that he got hit more in those than Foreman did against Norton and Frazier in his.

Here is the video for Joe Frazier-Terry Daniels:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT-0qOzNUdw

What round did this happen in? Frazier himself claimed to have been "rocked" and that he "felt" the punches he was hit with, but at no time can he be said to wobbled in the fight film I watched - he took these shots resolutely, and marauded forwards on every occasion.

Gil Clancy from ringsidE: "Daniels is really winging with his punches, but they just don't have any affect on Joe!"

He had more than double the fights he had had before than after, so even if this was accurate it's a ridiculous comparison.

He was most seriously hurt in Foreman I, Foreman II, Bonavena I and Ali III. In Foreman II and Ali III, he showed astonishing punch resistance, legendary punch resistance. To keep coming back from the punches he sucked up showed incredible resistance to punishment. The only time his punch resistance looked legitimately suspect was against Bonavena, which was before the FOTC, and seems to have been a freak.

The notion that any degree of punch resistance would have aided him in Foreman II is, however, ludicrous. He could have been carrying a steel anvil in his chin and it wouldn't have made any difference.

There is no question at all of Marciano taking Foreman's flush bombs. It just wouldn't happen, and all the inflation in the world on your part of Moore and Walcott as punchers won't change that.

Actually, the reverse is true. A wider stance makes it far, far easier to unbalance the opponent seriously and makes it far harder for the opponent to adjust his position. A wide stance is made for Foreman - Foreman moves Marciano back, Marciano struggles to adjust, uppercut.

Marciano parks with his back foot, Foreman shifts him left, right-hand.

Marciano will attempt actions, and may score with punches, but this scenario, like almost every other in the fight heavily favours Foreman, heavily favours him.

But a narrower stance makes for easier adjustments.

Easier, but with less affect, and look what happened.

First he has to close the ENORMOUS distance in range between them created by Foreman's massive advantage in range, and IF Marciano gets passed Foreman's punches he is in with a guy who is forty pounds heavier, stronger, expert at moving him off, it's another enormous advantage for Foreman.

But everyone apart from you would happily accept that Foreman fought the closest thing possible to Foreman, and that this was the most overwhelmingly on-sided fight between two fighters ever - and that this is the single biggest clue as to what will happen when they meet.