George Foreman vs. Sonny Liston prime for prime.

Funny because not only did Foreman say Liston had the best jab out of everyone he faced, and sparred with but he also learned his own from Liston on his own words "Sparring with Liston is the most dangerous thing that I ever did in my entire life. As I said earlier, no matter what I tried against him, it was me who had to revert back to boxing. Nobody made me box like Sonny Liston did and that happened every time we worked together. He taught me many things, including the importance of the jab. I just couldn’t get mine straight and every day he had me working on it. There were times when he could have knocked my head off but he didn’t because we were pretty good friends. I saw the way he stared at people and I took on some of that behavior to intimidate opponents. That was where some of that “Bad George” came from, hanging around with Sonny."

You seem to be quite ignorant about many things for a so called expert.

 

Lol

 

Really good post.

 

Liston quit on his stool throwing away the greatest prize in all of sport. This is a huge deal and is a strong window into the will to win of Liston. It’s a main reason most historians do not rate him within a top ten. Listons injured shoulder that night has always been looked upon as dubious as he was throwing his jab just before the last round bell with no sign of injury. Liston quit period and end of sentence. There was nothing going on in that fight to justify quitting.

In comparison Foreman young or old always showed huge levels of fighting heart. Lyle (after a 15 month layoff) being hurt and decked repeatedly but coming on to win. Stewart with his face ready to split open and going on to win.

Here is a nice video illustrating the Foreman jab both young and old versions of George. It’s a jab that was termed the best since Louis back in the early 70’s.

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Foreman sparred with Liston just after he turned pro so a very green George in 68-69. It would be expected that he would pick up tips training with a long time pro.

You also have to take with a grain of salt anything Foreman says.

 

Almost a Lyle fight... I can see something like this happening. However, I think it could be argued that, though Lyle was nowhere near the fighter Liston was overall, he arguably had a greater heart, and we all know George had tons of that as well. Foreman goes down but outjabs, outmuscles, and in the end pulverizes Liston. Liston looks like Shavers at the end of Holmes 2; he either quits or the ref stops it it in eight.

 

I said the same thing

 

That's not the point. He was asked who had the best jab out of ANYONE he faced or sparred with in a career spanning nearly 30 years and he chose Liston. If you don't find this significant, I simply don't know what to say.

 

Liston fought 6 rounds with a broken jaw in his 8th fight valiantly to lose a split decision. Lyle never showed anything like this.

Outmuscles Liston? A young Foreman on his own accord couldn't Outmuscle an old Liston.

Their is no way in hell he is out jabbing Liston either. Liston had the much better jab. While Foreman on the other hand rarely used this in his first career.

Also, I want you to show me one instance of Liston quitting in his prime. Just one. As a matter of fact show me any instance of quitting outside the highly dubious fights with Ali.

 

I'm still confused as to why people think Foreman had a better jab that Liston.

 

Both are slow as molasses.
Both can crack
Both are no defense wizzards, they are not difficult to hit and have good chins.
Both have good boxing abilities but only operate on one gear.
Both are fairly methodical and have major problems with movers.
Both are prone to get rattled pre fight by a opponent with a big mouth.

Conclusion: On paper , fairly even matched, in reality it will come down to heart and Foreman just got too much heart for Liston in a fire fight because a fire fight it will be.......this aint no ham and egger like Williams who busted the Ugly Bear up, this is a Olympic Gold medalist who did not have ANY quit in his DNA, ever.

Sonnt Liston is the most hysterical over rated fighter on this board, he rolled a glass chinned light Heavy twice and flat out quit twice against a green unproven Clay when the going got rough.

Foreman went out on his shield against Ali and almost out against Lyle.....

Liston never went out on his shield.Fact.

After the Clay debacle Liston talked the talk but never walked the walk again, he did not face a life body or got himself into true contender status for a title ever again until he over dosed..........

George Foreman came back and won a title after a couple of failed attempts eventually against a weak belt holder but nevertheless he delivered. End of.

 

They don't

 

Foreman quit in Zaire too. He wasnt out. He just didn't want anymore. George was in his absolute prime when he quit. He was facing an inferior version of Ali compared to the lightening fast Ali of '64.

 

Numerous people in this thread have said Foreman had the better jab and would outjab Liston which anyone who watched these fighters even once know this simply isn't true.

 

Finally someone else here thinks that. Foreman didnt look hurt at all when he was on the floor. He was just very tired and didn’t really make any effort to get up and beat the court. He was younger and stronger than Ali but this fight was the first time in his entire career that he faced any real adversity and he couldn’t handle it mentally and quit.