George Foreman's comeback - fraud or for real?

It's a pretty ******ed comment. A chinny fighter gets KO'd by one of the hardest hitting heavyweights of all time, yep, must be a fix.

 

You nailed it! You pretty much summed up the facts of George's comeback beautifully!

I was also a big George Foreman fan, and when he fought Holyfield and Moorer, I was rooting for the big guy and hoping and praying that he would win. However, as I was about 17 years-old at the time of the Holyfield fight, and barely 20-years-old for the Moorer fight, I was a little naive as to the legitimacy and depth of Foreman's comeback. The older I became, the more cynical I became not only towards George and his comeback, but towards life in general as well.

George used the notoriety from his first career as champion to open doors during his comeback that should have only been opened by fighting good opponents. He adopted a shctick and a jolly, funny, self-deprecating persona that I think was designed to attract people from all walks of life - not necessarily just hard-core boxing fans - in order to make his popularity such that promoters and other fighters would go out of there way to stage big money fights with George.

George, although a preacher, was definitely no saint. He went along with all of the behind the scenes machinations prior to the Axel Schultz fight, and then after Schultz proved a tougher than expected foe, he screwed him over and decided not to give him a rematch. And then George, after winning that sacred heavyweight title that was supposedly the driving force fueling his comeback, allowed himself to be stripped of the title instead of doing the honorable thing in giving Schultz a rematch.

 

Exactly! The fact that he was a man of God didn't seem to stop Foreman from doing some rather dirty, unscrupulous maneuvers during his comeback. It always seemed to me that the boxing world and the millions of dollars at stake in it were more important to Foreman than were his Christian principles.

The guy was just plain greedy! A fight against Riddick Bowe was scrapped when Foreman made outrageous demands like asking for half the purse money and equal billing. And Bowe was the champion at the time!

But the whole Schultz fiasco was really a low point. And it seems that a lot of people give Foreman a pass on that issue. But what seems to be lost is that not only was Foreman "allowed" to fight the unranked Schultz, but after Schultz beat him in the eyes of most people, Foreman chose not to give him a rematch. I mean, Foreman and his people pay a $250,000 bribe to Bob Lee in order to get Schultz ranked, and after this nobody kicks George's butt, George decides the honorable thing to do is to allow himself to be stripped and not fight Schultz again. Foreman was hoping for a mega-bucks fight against Mike Tyson, and Schultz got in the way!

 

Everyone talks about the low blows that Golota hit Bowe with. But what about the low blows that Foreman slung at Alex Stewart? I mean, those were blatant low blows that were HARD! Foreman was winging those shots at Stewart's cup!

And then after George gets his face kicked in by Stewart, he has the gall to say that he felt like he "outboxed him the whole way through" when speaking to Larry Merchant after the fight.

And then a few weeks after the fight, word from the Foreman camp was that George was suffering a sinus infection at the time of the Stewart fight, and that's why his face blew up like it did!

Nice!

 

My answer to the title of this thread is no.. There is nothing fraudulant about the comeback of George Edward Foreman.

The criticisms generated around Foreman's competition or selective match making between 1987-1997, generally come from those who critique him in the wrong fashion. Had George Foreman been a 22 year old gold medalist coming out of the 1988 Olympics, then I could see arms in uproar about him choosing Everett "Big Foot" Martin as his 19th career opponent. This however, is simply not the case. A great former champion, who was now 39 years of age, and returning after 10 years of carrying around a bible had now stepped back into the ring to acheive the impossible, and the impossible is exactly what he showed us.

From 1987-1991, George Foreman had compiled a collosal record of 24-0-0-23, in a somewhat short period of time. He was probably one of the most active fighting contenders in the division at the time, something one wouldn't expect from an aging athlete. While compiling these wins, he showed us that he had devised a defensive strategy that not only was greatly improved over his previous one, but was even more effective than most fighters around during that time. He also proved that nearly every bit of his punching power was still present, and also showed his ability to pace himself early and even to go the distance.

Along the way, Foreman picked up wins against various names such as Bert Cooper, Dave Jaco and former cruiser champ Dwight Qawi ( Braxton ). In 1990, he fought the biggest name of his comeback thus far, Gerry Cooney. Cooney had not won a fight in nearly 3 years, and had a history of breaking down when stepping up in competition. These things may look bad on paper, but as I watched the fight as a 15 year old in 1990, I discovered that this was still a rather formidable opponent. Cooney had been drug and alcohol free for the first time in years and was now training under the legendary Gil Clancy ( a former trainer of Foreman ). Cooney looked in much better shape and more focussed than he had against Michael Spinks years earlier, plus he still possesed a respectable punch, and for whatever its worth, was nearly a full decade younger than Foreman. Gerry started off landing big in the first, but Foreman utterly crushed him in the second-something that I don't think a lot of heavyweights in 1990 could have done to even this version of Cooney. George later took on Adilson Rodriguez that summer. Rodriguez was to memory the WBC's # 9 contender, and the current Brazilian heavyweight champ. He was a somewhat young 31 year old fighter with a respectable record of 36-3-0-26. Foreman iced him in only two rounds with little resisitance. George also beat competant journeyman in Ken Lakusta ( Canadian champion ) and puncher Terry Anderson that year, all of which I viewed personally.

In the spring of 1991, Foreman challenged Evander Holyfield for the unified lineal title. Some here have argued that he was not deserving of the shot, but I disagree. The only other men who were equally or more deserving were already lacing it up to fight each other, with the winner being promised a shot at the title soon after, so frankly I don't see how this can be labeled as a duckin on Holyfield's part, nor an undue shot at the title on Foreman's. One of those men, Razor Ruddock had in fact climbed to the top of the division by doing the exact same thing that Foreman had done, by beating aging or slipping foes. The only two differences, is that one of those foes dropped Ruddock in a fight, while the other, is that Foreman was fighting far more actively. Foreman became the first man in years to go the distance with Evander, and in so doing landed some impressive shots, while also renewing the fans appreciation of him.

Over the next few years Foreman, did little to warrant receiving a second shot, but lets face it, the heavyweight picture of 1994 was not exactly a piccaso of masterpieces. Mike Tyson was in exhile. Bowe had recently lost to Holyfield, who in turn lost to Michael Moorer, then temporarily retired. Lewis was humiliated by Oliver McCall. The WBA and WBC made a mockery of boxing by rating Bruce Seldon and Tony Tucker as among their top contenders. Moorer had just won the title, and like so many other champions who both preceded or succeded him, he chose to fight a named opponent over a mandatory. Given that their were few or no respectable contenders to choose from, I'd say Foreman was as good a choice as any. George again showed that despite being 45 year of age, that he could go many rounds and take many shots from a prime champion. In the 9th round, he landed one of the most beatiful rights to Moorer's jaw that I had ever seen, handing Michael his first loss in 35 pro fights.

Following the Moorer win, George began taking it easy. He probably should have renounced the title and retired after 1994, but chose to take things further. The Axel Shultz fight was a disgrace, but he was arguably robbed against Shannon Briggs in the last fight of his career at the near age of 50, so frankly I don't think much of it. The Savarese win was respectable given that Lou was a rather large fighter who had compiled a 36-0 record, and had recently beaten Buster Mathis for a regional belt.

Foreman's comeback was no joke nor fraud. He had some close fights, fought some weak opponents, but in the end, I'd say his resume over that decade was pretty solid.

 

theres more proof lineing up foreman with easy fights in his comeback then there is agianst the fact that it was a fix ..

 

Taking a pounding over ten rounds from Moorer, then landing a huge shot that resulted in over 30 stitches going into Moorer's face.

....Some fix.....

 

Ruddock, Lewis, and Bowe were too risky. I think Foreman would've have no problem signing to fight Tyson, but prison and the Arum/King rivalry prevented that. There are some stories of Tyson not wanting to fight Foreman, and Arum and King did work together on a double-header in 1990 with both Foreman and Tyson, but who knows really?

I don't think too much of the dirty fighting, I'm used to that. Foreman has been said among boxing circles to be totally different when the cameras are off and I've heard a lot of bad stories about who he really is.

He is an amazing salesman though. I find it remarkable that he was so successful and made so much money through endorsements. You had guys like Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, etc...that from the start, had a cultivated public image. Foreman already had an image of an intimidating, brooding, angry bully. He had to totally change that image and it made him 9 figures.

I use the grill everyday.

 

Moorer was gushing blood, you can see blood on the canvas when Moorer was down, and there was a picture of how disgusting his lip looked afterwards.

Those last 1-2s didn't look like much, but they landed clean. And they surely weren't the only punches that Foreman landed throughout the fight.

 

Oh, I won't deny that he was shrewd in his matchmaking. He certainly was.

I won't deny that the Stewart, Schulz, etc fights were very close and that Foreman could well have been the beneficiary of corrupt judging.

What impresses me though is that he always came to win. Even though he was a fat old man, he was always in shape (his looks were quite deceiving) and he fought his heart out. He took a horrendous beating not once, but many times in his second career, including the fight where he KO'd Moorer for the heavyweight title.

 

wow show me some after pictures

 

I've heard stories about George being a kind of Jekyll and Hyde type of a guy. I don't know how true it is, but many people seem to think that George is just a good actor, that when the cameras are on, he morphs into the jolly, friendly giant. Who knows!

But I saw an interview from not too long ago with Jim Lampley. The interviewer asked Lampley if he missed working with George Foreman on HBO, and Lampley answered quickly and empahtically with a "NO"!

So, I'm sure George has his issues.

 

Alex Stewart and Adilson Rodriguez were ranked contenders. Not exactly hall of fame resume builders, but ranked none the less.

I never bought into the whole bad guy turned good thing. Not that I think his finding religion was complete bull****. He probably believes in the faith he preaches. I just don't think he was ever really a bad guy. I think he beat the hell out of people in a savage way, and there was no way to think a nice guy was dishing out those beatings. The only difference I see in him now from then is that he smiles a lot.

 

If a fighter legitimately wins the heavyweight title in the ring then he is as absolute a champion as Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Muhamad Ali etc regardless of whether he should have got the shot.

You make the point that his comeback might have been partly due to clever managment on his own part and it was. He was smart. He found a way.

Louis and Ali in their comebacks just went up against the best heavy around and got brutalized.

Foreman learned from those mistakes and did something smart. He got himself in the ring with the lineal champion however he had to then knocked him out!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I honestly think that Foremans comeback was a masterpeice of brawn, will, and astuteness on his part. It was frankly more beutufull in its own way than Gene Tunneys win over Jack Dempsey.

 

I know Rodriguez was ranked at the time that Holyfield knocked him out, but was he still ranked when he fought Foreman? And Stewart I don't think was rated in the top ten at the time of the Foreman fight; he had just been knocked out by Mike Tyson and Michael Moorer prior to facing Foreman.