If they were using the same size/type gloves as Fitzsimmons had, would they have managed a similar knockout record against today's top cruiserweights? Remember, though, that the cruiserweights will ALSO be using the tiny gloves.
Jackson lacks the durability to retain his KO record because i think a lot of cruiserweights would stop him. An very good chin is essential for such a big leap in weight. McClellan has a better chance because he was a lot bigger naturally, 6'2 and i think he could make it to 175 without that much trouble. He was also very durable. Remember though, that to be a hard puncher, you have to plant your feet well and this means you are likely to have to take some punches to get in that big shot. When you're fighting a cruiserweight this gives additional trouble knowing your opponent can take your head off with a counter and it's harder to get into punching range. Terry Norris was giving Jackson a boxing lesson untill he got caught (in the 2nd), now if that was a cruiserweight, Jackson would have to be more carefull because of the power and would have a harder time getting in because of the size difference. So it would be a lot harder. Sidenote, i don't think using smaller gloves will increase the chance of scoring a knockout. It does more facial damage asin cuts, bruises etc, but clean knockdowns or knockouts are just as likely as with 8oz gloves in my opinion. Well, when being hit, that is. If you include the fact that it's harder to block punches with smaller gloves then it changes things. Then again, with smaller gloves it's easier to damage your hands so maybe it evens things out.
I firmly believe that smaller gloves means that lighter fighters carry more of a heavyweight punch. Still, i am not sure if McLellan and Jackson would ever knockout heavys the same way that fitz did, with the same regularity, although i believe that both of these guys would score plenty of knockout wins provided that their chins stand up to heavyweight punching. It is quite strange really. There is no doubt in my mind that size plays a big role in boxing. But, throughout history, (even today) smaller guys regularly beat big boxers. In fact, the only former middleweights who would be anywhere near World championship level today, who fight in the heavyweight division are guys like Toney, Jones Jr, Byrd etc. All have very good records. Some of those versions who fought at heavy, could not possibly compete with mythical middleweight versions of themselves (Toney in particular). And Toney wasnt totally untouchable at lighter weights, so who is to say that some of the other middleweights woulnt compete with, defeat and knock out other heavys. Vlad lost to a fat slow and ordinary stamina Lamon Brewster who has nothing special by way of reach. Is it totally impossible to believe that a fit middleweight (provided they have the chin), would not land more regularly and hurt and trouble those super heavys. obviously if hit clean, super heavys can finish it with one blow, but they can do that to other superheavys as well. It really is a shame we have our current predicament. I wont talk about quality, but there are so many interesting matchups that could be made if challengers would fight 1 every month or two against all comers and there were just 8 weight classes with one champ. Imagine if the Next 12 months saw Calzaghe vs Kessler, Jones Jr, Tarver, Hopkins, Jirov and Klitchsko. Even if he lost to some of the heavier fighters, you would consider him a real light heavy champ (or middleweight champ).
Ok, I'm going to deal with the impact of McClellan and Jackson as Heavyweight punchers rather than how they would deal with fighting at Heavyweight/Cruiserweight. McClellan, IMO, was a Cruiserweight who was basically cutting down to 170lb. This partly explains why he suffered such a terrible injury against Nigel Benn - he was super dehydrated partly as a result of cutting down too far. Therefore, he would do well at Heavyweight although his power of course would not be the same. McClellan was a helluva puncher at Super Middleweight partly because he was fighting guys naturally much smaller than him. Jackson is different, a smaller man who was fighting much closer to his natural weight. I just don't know what would happen if he hit 220+ guys with the same punch that KO'd Herol Graham for example. The greater strength and mass of a Heavyweight would, in theory, deal with the energy of a Jackson punch easier than a Middleweight would. But then if Fitz could I think Jackson could as well. The guy was a special puncher and they don't come along too often. Neither fighter at Heavyweight/Cruiserweight would have the same stoppage ratio though.
He gave up 4 to 5 inches in height and reach to vlad. Mcleland is the same height and i presume reach (roughly) as Brewster. Jackson is a little shorter again. Same height as say a Mike Tyson? If the punch is good enough, Brewster proved the Giant can be felled without Superheavy statistics. Although, I doubt that was really ever doubted, as it has been proved time and time again over the years.
Collossal in Weight yes, but height and reach? When did a fighter last carry his power up to heavy? Certainly a difficult question. I have no doubt that as a general rule the average heavy has more power than most big hitting Middle/Light heavys. Probably have better chins also. It is also true that murderous light heavy punchers generally are not as devastating at heavy for the same reason. But, middles and light heavys who go to heavyweight never are obliterated by each and every punch as some people seem to think (sure a clean punch might ko a few, but those same punches also KOd Super heavies Klithsko and Lewis as well). And there power is never negligible. If they land, they do hurt the bigger fighters. The question or problem is whether they can land enough without taking to much punishment.
What does height have to do with it while ignoring weight? There's a reason we have WEIGHT categories, not HEIGHT categories. Unless you think putting Mike Tyson and Sugar Ray Robinson in the same ring would be fair because they're both 5'11. Besides, i don't know if you've seen the fight, but Brewster hardly beat Wlad with a punch, it was more a matter of taking an insane amount of punishment for four and a half rounds after which Wlad was gassed and even then he couldn't knock Wlad down.
I can't think of Julian Jackson or McClellan being top notch heavyweights. Although they are two of the best p4p punchers of all time they wouldn't be that devastating at heavyweight. I know the great James "LightsOut" Toney's success at heavyweight or Roy Jones win over Ruiz has people thinking maybe other middles could have had that type of success. But the difference is Jackson and McClellans were primarily known for there offense. Where as James Toney's wicked chin combined with his legendary defense which enables him to not get his flush often as he rolls with the shots beautifully is a huge reason for his success at heavy not his power. Roy Jones godly speed and reflexes in his prime enabled him to avoid taking punishment while boxing and winning based on his speed. Jackson and McClellan are great fighters but their cup of tee is engaging but that wouldn't be as successful agianst heavyweights as they were in the lower wieght classes. McClellan could have made a great light heavyweight though.
Where was weight ignored? In theory a fighter who is taller and with a bigger reach can through the jab all night and the little guy cant reach him. Lewis did it to Tyson and Vlad seems to try to do it when he fights now. This is why plenty of people try to say that the 68 inch reach Marciano has no hope of reaching modern superheavys and could not beat them head to head. The reach didnt affect brewster winning. If the middleweight has the punch he will dominate like a fitzsimmons did. Reach definitely matters and helps a fighter. But that difference is not insurmountable same with weight. No I dont. But Sugar Ray Robinson vs say Rob Callaway might be interesting. By the way, it is very doubtful that Tyson is 5 11 but that is another topic. Not as religously as some on here seem to, but Brewster turned the fight with a punch. Sure Vlad probably became tired, but that has happened to every fighter who is knocked out after winning. See Conn, Foreman, etc. If Brewster hadnt of landed cleanly when he did, then assuming a miracle landing later, he would be pummelled like he was in the second fight.
Right here: Those words imply that because McClellan has the same height as Brewster that it's a fair matchup? Comparing Jackson to Tyson because they're equally tall?? Height is a good thing to have in boxing but it means very, very little compared to weight. :good This content is protected I know these pictures can be faked but in the ring he looked to be around 5'11 so i see no reason to doubt it. My apologies but you made it sound as if it was Dempsey vs Willard all over again. I do disagree on your analysis by the way, Wlad was already dead tired in the beginning of the 5th. Slumping around the ring, little footwork, not keeping his hands high, breathing heavily... it was only after that happened that Brewster hit him. With one shot and nothing after that yet Wlad kept stumbling around, falling down with again no punch landing - a clear sign that it was pure exhaustion.
Brewster is 6"2 and has a reported 77 inch reach he is a big guy he is not a small heavyweight by no means. He isn't a giant like Wlad but he aint small.
If Mclellan hits as hard as Brewster(or Tyson whichever way you want to look at it), then it would seem possible. The essence of what i am arguing in (in ideal circumstances) is that if weight is directly related to punching power and speed and stamina, and we assume that 220 is the ideal weight for a heavyweight, then if we reduce the size of the gloves, the ideal weight for a heavyweight will drop. There are of course other factors and weight isnt directly related in most cases. If Fitzsimmons (and he was was exceptionally low in weight for his times) had a heavyweight punch, there is no reason why a simmilarly gifted modern heavy could not be just as gifted. One interesting thought (even under todays rules) is how would say Jermaine Taylor do in the heavyweight division. Personally, i think that he would beat many ranked heavyweights, but he would also get knocked out regularly. It would be interesting if some of the lighter guys actually tried their luck against some run of the mill big guys. It will never happen though because firstly fighters only usually fight 2 or 3 times a year. Secondly, do gooders would go nuts and thirdly, who could blame a little guy for risking all against a giant with a massive punch who could knock them out cold, when there are easier bigger money matchups made by fighting fighters their own weight divisions. When he first came on the scene he was billed as low as 5'9. He has been billed as high as 5'11. There is no real proof of his exact size, some people who have seen him in person vary their thoughts. to me, 5 10 is probably the closest and most believable. You probably had a better memory, but i didnt think the commentators picked up that he was ready to fall from exhaustion before the punch. I agree he probably started to get tired and lazy and that was why he was nailed. I dont see how Vlad stumbling after that can be attributed to anything but a punch. A boxer is hardly going to not be able to stand up because he threw too many punches. Clearly that shot damaged him badly and he could not recover. That is why he stumbled around after the punch. I just cant see any other reason, unless you believe in a conspiracy theory.
Fair enough, though i don't believe McClellan or Jackson punches nearly as hard as Brewster. He had a cruiserweight punch and knocked out cruiserweights. Heavyweights with talent barely existed back then with the exception of Jeffries and Johnson; and he couldn't even beat Jeffries with padded gloves, on two attemps. Maybe, maybe not. The heavyweight division is big money. So what's stopping him? 5'11 or 5'10, maybe 5'10 1/2. One centimeter more or less is not going to make THAT much of a difference. It's interesting you say that because i just rewatched the fight and the commentators DID pick up on how Wlad was slumping around the ring with his hands down, early in the 5th, before Brewster landed that punch. About the conspiracy theory, i'm not sure. If you watch the Mercer fight, you'll see him throw 60+ punches per round for 6 rounds with no signs of fatigue at all. Same for the Brewster rematch, the McCline fight or actually any other fight in his career. Maybe it was a case of bad training and exhaustion, but what bothers me is that in a normal fight, the fight is stopped and the fighter is ok, takes a few minutes on his stool and gives interviews etc. Such was the case in his loss against Purrity, which was after 11 hard rounds. In this case, he was only getting in worse condition after the fight, totally out of it. Got into a diabetic coma later and had blood sugar levels off the charts. Again, it could be fatigue, a panic attack or whatever, but i've never seen a case like this is 100 years of boxing matches so yes, i do find it a somewhat suspicious case. Especially considering he threw much more punches against Mercer with no trouble. At any rate, a guy falling down from fatigue because he got tired of pounding the smaller man is a very poor example of how to beat a big guy. Besides, Brewster is all but a small guy.
