Gerardo González vs. William Walter Graham, Jr. III - IB's standalone RBR scorecard

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Feb 12, 2020.


  1. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Hysterical shrill Soros client queen. Staff Member

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    Round 15

    González is blowing hard as Graham chips away downstairs after running in, and then rag-dolls free of a clinch and batters him with short rights and 1-2s. González is hooking messily at the midsection, unable to really get full extension on turning his shots over with Graham mashing into him relentlessly. Graham encircles his left arm round González's waist, and they pound each other with rights - Graham focusing his attacks on the ribs while González is clobbering him on the crown. Graham is pressuring behind a jab and catches González with an overhand right. Flurry inside by González, frenetic. Huge series of underhanded power blows on the body from González before the bell.

    10-9 Graham, ultra close

    143-142 Graham
     
  2. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Well...we all have our own idiosyncrasies and touchstones. That just happens to be one of mine. Plus. I did grant that my annoyance was somewhat irrational.

    That said, using a legendary fighting name or nickname just seems the way for me to properly identify/respect the fighter in question.

    All good, though. Your RBR, your choice of format. My disdain for the forum's preferred format doesn't mean that I can't enjoy the RBR.
     
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  3. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Hysterical shrill Soros client queen. Staff Member

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    Official scorecards:

    Schwarz 9-6 González (soundly booed)
    Forbes 7-7-1 ...tiebreaker point for Graham
    7-7-1 ...tiebreaker point for González, winner by EXTREMELY unpopular (in MSG on the night) SD.
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    Awesome, razor-thin fight though, wasn't it? See what I mean about Graham? Underrated as hell.
     
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  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Hysterical shrill Soros client queen. Staff Member

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    Ah there, we go. I was just about to launch into a lecture about how the "In my own threads in the future I'm going to ..." part wasn't 'overly irrational', but the judgmental tone of suggesting that I'm wrong to act on my preference was. But you've made the point for me.

    For me, (just by way of explanation at this point, in case this sounds defensive or argumentative) it would feel very wrong to grant "special consideration" to anyone. If that's my format when discussing, say, a club-fighter in a 4-round show opener, then I'm not going to abandon it for somebody due to any sort of presupposition of their exalted "status" exempting them from it. That smacks to me of 'ivory tower' sacred-sow elitism, but just looking at it from a different angle than yourself I guess.

    I also refuse to use Thai corporate & gym sponsorship names, just flat out. And names that are sort of modifications of a real name, like in the cases of José Manuel López or Luis Miguel Román Portillo: maybe in casual conversation or a random post I would refer to them as "Josésito" and "Micky" respectively - but to me a RBR (or even 'official poll', or 'career retrospective') title is a space that warrants a certain proprietary standard of professionalism in writing style, and for me that means full legal names. Believe me, I'm well aware that not everybody likes it - but end of the day, it remains my prerogative and nobody's invective or grievances hurled towards me have nor will ever change my view on it. :thumbsup:
     
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Hysterical shrill Soros client queen. Staff Member

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    Yep, and it seems both the Associated Press and United International agreed with Forbes and myself (and just about every fan at the Garden, not least of all including the youngish sounding girl whose devastating pleas reverberated throughout round 15, "come on, Billy, please!!"
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    You know if this was an HBO production they would have cut to a shot of that poor heartbroken lass weeping at the decision.
     
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  7. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft The Cobra Will Always Bite Back... Full Member

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    I swung on the final round. Could've gone either way imo but pussied out and stuck on the fence with an even round. I'm looking into Graham more, but I'm doing a big thing in Gavilan later(as in a few days, later) in my private thread over in the Euro section. I'll tag you, if you want.
     
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  8. Drew101

    Drew101 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    While I can get behind your rationale, I feel that in instances where fighters adopt the names themselves-in some cases going so far as to legally change their name- that they should be referred to by that particular moniker. So, for me, I'd use Muhammad Ali or Marvelous Marvin Hagler in the title rather than Cassius Marcellus Clay or Marvin Nathaniel Hagler, since those were names that were chosen (legally in both cases) and preferred by the fighters themselves. Ditto Matthew Saad Muhammad, Dwight Muhammad Qawi, etc.

    Again, this is just my preference....But I would feel remiss if I didn't say that I would feel a little odd to see RBR's using Ali's birthname in 2020.

    Make sense...?
     
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  9. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Hysterical shrill Soros client queen. Staff Member

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    I totally get your logic as well, just not a slope I'm willing to slip down personally, as for me that opens the door to a mid-card fighter pulling some Ron Artest type of "Metta World Peace" bs and proclaiming themselves now to be "Juicebox McGillicutty" - like, no. I'm not going to indulge that. :lol: And if that reads as disrespectful to some, I'm willing to bear that cost.

    (although I will say that in the case of Hagler or Ali, them actually going to court to change their names does legitimize them in my view; I've used their preferred ones in the past for that reason, albeit maybe not exclusively)
     
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  10. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    'Liked' just for the expression Holy ****balls.
     
  11. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

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    Gavilan/Gonzalez v Graham 3 is on my must watch list this weekend. Will post my card in the FOTF thread and will try and keep an absolutely open mind, so if I come out with a 10-5 type scorecard either way you can be assured it's absolutely honest, regardless of its competency.
     
  12. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails Full Member

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    **** it, I'll lose a little sleep and do the post.

    Kid Gavilan vs Billy Graham III

    Gavilan - Graham

    R1: 10 - 9
    What a class opener! Gavilan the aggressor and uppping the work rate on Graham.
    R2: 10 - 9
    Gavilan trying to pour it on. Sneaky headbutt from Graham near the end then. Well timed :D
    R3: 10 - 10
    My God this is getting close! Supreme ability.
    R4: 9 - 10
    Masterful Boxing.
    R5: 10 - 9
    Very close action, and possibly a swing round.
    R6: 9 - 10
    Lots of glancing work due to the skill level. Graham wins on his crisp inside work, and is starting to get the jab down.
    R7: 10 - 10
    Very close. Graham with the jab and lead, Gavilan working more.
    R8: 10 - 9
    Gavilan on the jab now; responding with right counters.
    R9: 9 - 10
    Great action again. Billy more compact.
    R10: 9 - 10
    Graham rapier sharp this round.
    R11: 10 - 9
    Very close again!
    R12: 9 - 10
    Graham with the masterful jab and infighting. He has also made the Keed really respect his power now.
    R13: 9 - 10
    Graham again more compact and effective with his work.
    R14: 9 - 10
    Close. Graham's short hooks take this. Great action.
    R15: 9 - 10
    Great finale!

    TOTAL: 145 - 142 GRAHAM

    Notes:
    • Magnificent, magnificent bout. ATG / Legendary skills is truly an appropriate term here, especially for the criminally forgotten Graham (shout out to @red cobra for being the original appreciator and introducer of Graham for me a long while back!)
    • A thinking mans fight, but not boring, with plenty of high class action.
    • Graham ultimately won on being the more compact, crisp fighter, especially with his inside work. Gavilan was hitting shoulder and elbows all night.
    • Second time watching this, first time scoring. Renowned by hard-cores for it's perceived 'scoring difficulty', it definitely lives up to it IMO.
     


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