Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Nov 12, 2022.
I haven't made those statements.so I suggest you continue this with those that have M.
I know you didn’t. I’m just giving you background into the thread.
No worries M.
Yes we have and that is tending to overrate some fighters to hype someone, and you can not say anything bad about him, or people on this forum would lynch you and that is Sonny Liston.
Hyping Cleveland is just to make it look like Sonny Liston fought someone but Gerry Cooney was proven fighter than Cleveland.
If you havent any counter argument to prove me wrong then this case is closed.
The ring ratings in the early years and my era were very solid whilst in my era the alphabet ratings were an absolute joke. In their first match Daniels was rated #6. He'd only ever lost to Muhammad Ali. So Williams at this point beat Daniels when he was the 6th rated heavyweight in the world. Whether you consider him rated or not in the return the fact is Williams beat him when he was ranked.
Buffalo Bills three losses between the Williams bouts were to at least two rated contenders and if the other guy wasn't rated he was about to be. In the early 80 guys like Page, Witherspoon, Berbick, Snipes and co fought all the time and even after losses were still top 10...because they were fighting contenders.
But the real story which you haven't accounted for or don't realise is that Billy Daniels upset the highly rated Doug Jones immediately prior to losing to Williams again. Jones was one of the top contenders (he would have been rated around #3 at the time Billy beat him) and one would have to strongly surmise such a notable win would have had Daniels considered back into the 10 irrespective of any interpretation of what had gone on prior. It's pure logic.
Well that's up to the individual of course and what they see and interpret. Some might be favoring him due to what he showed in a couple of losses. Myself personally, well i haven't favored anyone at this point.
Eddie was beating nobodies apart from Cobb, who in what's important to you, had lost his previous two fights. In his best years he was a lower tier contender. Cobb was axed in under a round in his very next fight as was Gregg, ironically, also in under a round vs a non contender.
You made this comment about Daniels - "Maybe Daniels had some divine power we don’t know of and the fact that he retired winning less than half of his pro fights was considered an achievement in the 60s."
Well Jimmy Young, whom you've just noted, also finished his career winning less than half of his pro fights.
This is where context is everything. We know Jimmy was an extremely good fighter at various times so lets not just write off Billy due to his finishing record, just like Jimmy doesn't get written off because of it. We know better.
FWIW i think Cooney's win over Young is his best win in a career devoid of wins over contenders. I think Young was still performing quite well.
I haven't been touting Williams and haven't actually picked him to beat Cooney so that one is between you and Swag.
Satterfield was in the top 10 the year they fought and for some years after as well. Williams had plenty of fights under his belt but if you have a look at this career point there hadn't been much of anything in there and it's fair to say he may have been a bit out of his depth against the quality of Satterfield.
As a matter of fact i don't think Williams found a ranking until about half a decade after fighting Satterfield.
Cool post, JT!
And that was supposed to Williams coming out party…
Williams came into this fight as a last minute substitute. He'd actually fought 14 days prior. Satterfield was favored.
Please provide evidence (not chok fiction/fairytale) that this bout, where he was a last minute sub, was supposed to be Williams "coming out party".
Seems awfully strange a last minute substitution conveys a coming out party.
This is a bit deceptive. Williams fought a handful of 4-rounders as a 16 year old before being forced to quit because he was underage. He'd been an active professional for less than two years when he dropped that decision to Sylvester Jones.
There was once an article produced on here, I think by @SolomonDeedes, with a full interview with Williams manager ahead of taking the Satterfield fight, explaining that they were taking the fight in the hope it would lead to big things, that Williams was ready to fight in anyways. Would be nice to see this again.
No it actually wasnt, he wasnt even supposed to be fighting,he was a late substitute.
Can you just stop with this deliberate spin?
It’s not “deliberate spin”.
The fundamental fact is Williams was a 33-1 heavily backed prospect being lined up as a future champion when Lou Viscusi, (manager to Willie Pep, Joe old bones brown and Bob Foster) also Williams influential manager, took the Satterfeild fight.
Williams had a huge size advantage and was fresh off a decent win 14 days earlier and had been doing plenty of road work since And was “100% in the best of shape to fight”.
Because Charles had landed himself a title shot against Marciano through knocking out Satterfeild the hope was Williams could be promised a Miami title fight with Marciano that winter if he won.
Satterfeild himself fought just 20 or so days earlier.