Gerry Cooney Vs Cleveland Williams

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mr. magoo, Nov 12, 2022.

  1. SolomonDeedes

    SolomonDeedes Active Member Full Member

    1,070
    1,178
    Nov 15, 2011
    I guess you mean this one from the Miami News. Viscusi did tell the press that "if we get lucky" the fight might lead to meetings with higher rated contenders. He also admitted that it was a gamble which he took as a favour to the promoter, and that he wished there had been time for Williams to get some proper sparring in so he'd be sharper.

    This content is protected


    The reality is it was all spin. As he acknowledged later, Viscusi knew full well that Williams' career was going to have to be put on hold whatever the result because he was in the process of being drafted into the army.

    This content is protected
     
    choklab, swagdelfadeel and mcvey like this.
  2. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    93,213
    21,358
    Jun 2, 2006
    Deliberate spin is exactly what it is. Williams wasnt being lined up to fight no 8 ranked Satterfield,he was put in at the last moment to save the show.

    Phrases like," heavily backed" thats just BS spin on your part , Satterfield was favourite to win and Williams was no more heavily backed than any other young fighter.

    You've been doing this BS about Williams for years calling Billy Daniels the Barber, as though he wasn't the no6 ranked heavyweight with only one loss ,[to Ali on a cut,] on his sheet.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
    JohnThomas1 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  3. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    He was being groomed for a title fight, he had already fought on one Marciano card, and the chance came to gatecrash the title situation when Satterfeilds opponent fell through. His manager, Lou viscusi, leapt at the chance. He had a much bigger guy who was ready to step up. He certainly thought it was worth a roll of the dice.
     
    Jackomano likes this.
  4. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    93,213
    21,358
    Jun 2, 2006
    Spin ,just like your disparaging of Williams early opponents such as Curley Lee because of his name.Lee was 18- 0-1 with14kos including wins over the likes of Paul Andrews who beat'
    McMurray
    Slade
    Durelle
    Nardico
    Dunlap
    Oakland Billy Smith

    And Art Henri who had a bunch of losses, but usually to good fighters19fight Williams stopped Henri in8rds.

    A year earlier Henri had gone 9 rds with 33 fight Marciano.

    So because Williams fought a 4 rounder on the bottom of the undercard of the
    Marciano v Lastarza 2nd fight , a fight he lost , that means he was being groomed for a title shot?
    More spin nonsense!
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
    JohnThomas1 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    Probably why Lou Visusi thought Williams would beat Satterfeild?
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    93,213
    21,358
    Jun 2, 2006
    Viscusi was a flesh peddler, he ended up as a booking agent for Mickey Duff who sacked him because he discovered he was not trust worthy.
    Anyway I'm back here, and I don't intend to waste my return pointing out your deliberate "adjustments to reality".
     
    JohnThomas1 and swagdelfadeel like this.
  7. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    flesh pedlar? That’s out of line!

    International Boxing hall of fame inducted viscusi in 2004. In canastota they say this about Lou:


    “Known in boxing circles simply as "Mr. Lou", Viscusi was born on June 15, 1909 in Schenectady, NY. He spent his childhood in Tampa, but moved north and settled in Hartford, CT in 1929 at the age of 19.
    Already a boxing manager, Viscusi also made his mark as a promoter in the New England area, promoting everything from boxing to wrestling to circuses. However, it was as a manager that he would find his greatest success. He guided the careers of welterweight Del Flanagan, heavyweight Roy (Cut and Shoot) Harris, middleweight Tony Licata, welterweight Manny Gonzalez and heavyweight Cleveland Williams, but was best remembered for maneuvering three Hall of Famers to world championships - featherweight Willie Pep, lightweight Joe (Old Bones) Brown and light heavyweight Bob Foster.
    Viscusi and trainer Bill Gore were one of boxing's classic combinations with Viscusi dealing with the business affairs and Gore handling the training. Together they handled hundreds of boxers, including champions Pep and Brown.
    Viscusi died on August 10, 1997.”
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2022
    Jackomano likes this.
  8. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,486
    10,739
    Jul 30, 2014
    The article said they were hoping the fight would lead to big things down the line, (on the caveat that they won which Williams' own manager conceded wasn't the most probably outcome) not for Williams, unranked at the time to face Marciano in a matter of months, whom to his credit was only fighting his number. 1 contender with the odd exception.

    So you're correct it's not "deliberate spin". It's fiction. You literally just made it up.
     
    mcvey and JohnThomas1 like this.
  9. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    That’s not how I remember it. Viscusi did not say “William’s losing is the most probable outcome”.

    He showed confidence in his fighter. Took the gamble because Williams was ready to step up. He had to be by then!

    Satterfeild lost just 3 weeks ago and was starting to lose more fights than he could win. Was smaller. Whereas viscusi own fighter was younger, bigger and won just 2 weeks earlier.

    Viscusi said that Charles got a crack at the title through beating Satterfield and he hoped Williams does the same. Something like that. He hinted that it wasn’t ideal but was worth the punt.

    But Go ahead and produce it. This “Not probable but I’ll still take it” nonsense, I’m sure if it exists you will have it.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
  10. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    Thank you for clearing this up. It shows Viscusi was rolling the dice on this opportunity. A calculated gamble Williams had to take at that point in his career. That Viscusi had confidence in him pulling it off.


    This content is protected
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
    Jackomano likes this.
  11. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    43,132
    25,531
    Apr 27, 2005
    I'd be extremely keen to see how you got that out of the articles.
     
    swagdelfadeel and mcvey like this.
  12. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    I’m more keen to see where swags “manager conceded it wasn’t the most possible outcome” came from.
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    43,132
    25,531
    Apr 27, 2005
    I'll take that as a...... yeah you're right i misconstrued the truth.
     
    mcvey likes this.
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

    27,078
    6,690
    Dec 31, 2009
    They took the fight because Williams could win it. And that’s all there is to it.

    You guys need to stop pretending Williams was deliberately lead to a knockout defeat. He wasnt. The kid was brought along slowly. And they were waiting for just such a fight to come up. A physically smaller name fighter who looked like he was on the slide. The whole purpose of investing all that caution in Williams career. And come up it did. So they took it. Just as they should have.
     
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2022
  15. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,486
    10,739
    Jul 30, 2014
    The "if we get lucky" line was a bit telling was it not?

    He acknowledges it as a gamble which is also telling he's not hugely confident, that Williams would win the fight, concedes Satterfield has a huge edge in experience.

    The most positive thing he says in Williams' favor is saying he'll be all right IF he gets there first, and says they'll "have to wait and see" which clearly suggests he wasn't sure of the outcome.
     
    JohnThomas1 likes this.