Gerry Cooney .vs. prime Ken Norton

I gotta second this. Norton is getting sold short here.

I think the biggest issue with Norton is his (supposely) weak chin... I am not totally sold on that. Sure his chin was not Foreman's or Shaver's proof... but again, whom was?

 

not to mention cooney is faster and has the better jab and hook.
at least cooney rocked foreman, norton didn't even come close

 

yeah actually it's a matter of circumstances that one of them was champion because the Ali that Norton fought wasn't such a good fighter to begin with.
There's also a reason cooney completely demolished him in one round and Holmes couldn't do anything of the sort, anyone can do that boxed ears

 

This is like the time you said Holyfield and Cooney were basically the same except for their skin color. I don't even know what to say about it.

 

That is nothing like anything I said, really.

 

If it went past the first three, Norton would probably take it. Cooney never had the necessary experience to deal with a Ken Norton if he didn't blow him out in the early rounds.

The Norton of the Cooney fight was absolutely shot. He never had the style to do well against fast-starting big punchers, but Norton had nothing left in the tank at that point in his career, nothing at all. Cooney's wins over Norton and Lyle were the exact same, fights against opponents who were notable in name only. Ability-wise they were comparable to a Scott LeDoux or Lynn Ball at that point, not really challenging opposition at all.

As soon as Norton gained any kind of confidence, Cooney would be in deep trouble. I'm not so sure if he would be able to take this kind of a body attack:

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I never EVER said that. I said QUARRY was. big difference. think about it and maybe youll understand
and cooney has way faster hands. i don't know who you're watching. in terms of hand speed cooney blows him out of the water. Watch his fights against dennis lyle and norton and young. he clearly has fast hands there. much faster then norton.

what i meant by anyone can do that is anyone can make stupid comparisons, you're making stupid comparisons, half of these matchups are just a matter of styles or circumstances
the ali that faced norton the first time would have a lot of trouble with cooney of the norton fight because of the left hooks and the size advantage cooney would've had. Ali probably takes a desicion because he doesn't have the pop to get him out of there, but Cooney would be game the entire time and would have a live chance just because Ali wasn't the man he was before.

you said norton was champion and cooney wasn't, true, but cooney faced a far better fighter when he attempted to obtain the title, norton faced ali who likely wasn't prepared and was past his prime anyways. cooney faced holmes who was at his peak and was a better fighter then Ali at that moment.

Just a bad matchup for Norton. he would still take the same heavy shots that he took in the real matchup, that's interchangable. I don't see why Norton would do any difference in his prime. Take away cooney's power and Norton still has a decent chance. But since he was also dropped by guys like Ledoux and stopped by Garcia I guess there's an argument for that too :good

 

Norton's hands also look fast against shot/never any good to being with opposition:

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWuHZk31q3Q[/ame]


Ali would have stopped Cooney late.

 

No, I think the biggest issue with Norton is his weak psyche, then general punch resistance and resilience. The first knockdown Shavers scored on him was courtesy of a right to the body. Late in his match with LeDoux, Scott folded Kenny in half with a hook downstairs. Foreman pounded him with rights to the side. Jerry Quarry knocked him from mid ring to the ropes with an opening round hook to the gut. Considering his physique and own body punching proficiency, Norton did not take hard shots to his torso particularly well. With him, it wasn't purely a chin issue. That's important, because of Gerry's own body punching proficiency.

Early in his career, he reportedly got up to win against Dutra, Eastling and Vic Brown, sub 200 pounders all. Later though, he had difficulty recovering once seriously stunned.

His chin wasn't Shavers or Foreman proof. We never got to find out if it was Lyle proof, Mac Foster proof, or even Bob Foster proof. There were some truly dangerous heavyweight hitters out there during his prime, and he steered clear of them, except for the one he had to go through to win the title. He saw some of Earnie's best performances from a ringside commentary position during the mid 1970s. The fact is that he didn't step in the ring with Shavers himself until after Holmes dominated Earnie over 12.

Lyle was ancient when Cooney disposed of him, but Gerry's power did not look lethal against Young. Maybe Ken underestimated it, and was surprised. If so, it's safe to assume this would have always been the case. After Foreman, Norton demonstrated little alacrity for a rematch, or a showdown with Lyle or Shavers. Ali and Jerry Quarry were the ones he was after. (And don't you think he breathed a great sigh of relief after Kinshsa, or Young-Foreman?)

 

:good

 

they did look fast here, but they still don't have the power that cooney did when he wanted to throw fast and hard
Probably, but the Ali that fought norton the first time still would have trouble with cooney

I never said this. I said Quarry was like Holyfield, and he is. Because Quarry liked to brawl, but sometimes box when he wants to. like holyfield. boxed ears is twisting my words.

 

Whoops. Meant to say Quarry. Which is also......to me. As for the rest, I'll get back to it but of course I disagree and think you're insane.

 

Then you need to watch more of Quarry. It makes perfect sense if you look at his fights
This is just a horrible matchup for norton. a puncher with fast hands and size advantages.

 

Yes, I can vouch that you said Quarry and I meant to type Quarry. Excuse me. But the suggestion was not only that at the time. I'm not trying to twist anyone's words. I think it was ...under a Quarry/Holyfield H2H thread?

 

Stander had a ridiculous chin on him though. Shavers and Frazier blasted him with their best.

Norton was not the puncher that Cooney was, but he hit hard enough to hurt him. Cooney was not used to taking punches in my opinion, he was used to giving them out. If Norton gains confidence and presses the attack, Cooney is in trouble. This is providing that Norton gets past the first three rounds, which is no given.

I agree with Duodenum that Norton's problems with punchers were as much mental as physical. He would foolishly back up against the ropes while giving ground to a puncher, when he was a fair enough puncher and a physical specimen himself, enough to have discouraged a rampaging Shavers. His style also left him open for body punches.