It's awesome you brought this up, as I just rewatched that fight last night. I forgot just how close Mike came and he certainly had both stamina and a champion's heart in that fight. Mike nearly knocked him out in two different rounds (I was especially impressed by the time in the 10th round). And from what I could see that was definitely a knockdown. The uppercut was so incredible it ruined him right into the next round. The fight should have been stopped between rounds imo.
I agree with all this, and see the cautiousness being due to the Snipes' knockdown...but just as much so I see it as the most obvious indicator of the onset of Larry's decline. Through his own fault, Larry made the Cooney fight last eleven rounds longer than it needed to, the Holmes of even a year earlier (which is when Cooney should have taken the fight) would have rained the rights in the second round and ended it. I must be fair to Larry and mention that he was obviously going through the symptoms of a bad cold during the Weaver fight, it wasn't just the exertion that made him sweat so much and his trunks fall off. The trunks btw where a big source of distraction for him in that fight as well.
According to Bugner, he was brutally beaten. Joe Bugner: “Ron Lyle nearly killed me. I am not kidding, he nearly killed me. “Ron Lyle was an ex-jailbird and learned boxing in jail. When I met him he said, ‘You got no chance of beating me because I am going to kill you.’ The fight went the full twelve rounds. After the bout, I called my brother Bill and told him I could not breathe. I had blood coming out of me. He rang the doctor who called an ambulance and rushed me to the Las Vegas emergency Hospital and they discovered I was bleeding internally. “They put me into an ice tank. It took me six months to recover from that fight. Ron Lyle was a punishing fighter and so ****ing big. He was bigger than me. He kept telling me during the fight, ‘I am going kill you mother****er.’ I sacked my manager (Andy Smith) after the fight after a 10-year relationship. He wanted to go to a party after the fight rather than look after my welfare. I had paid him 25% of my purse.”
Yeah, I guess thats up to Bugner to say that if it suited him. But the evidence from the film, judges scoring and newspaper reports point to a close gruelling fight that could have went either way.
If it suits him? He was hospitalized and it took him six months to recover from the body beating he took. And he didn't fight again for three years. You can be in a close fight and suffer a brutal beating. Regardless, I highly doubt if Cooney had fought Bugner after Joe was out of the ring for three years that people would have given Cooney any credit. Lyle BEAT Bugner, didn't leave the ring for three years and went 6-1 before the Cooney fight. And people on this thread give Cooney ZERO credit for that win. Hell, people don't give Marvis Frazier credit for beating Bugner. And that was after Joe had racked up a half-dozen wins in his comeback.
I’m only championing a guys potential. Of course there isn’t enough for Cooney to stand up along side real champions. I’ve even said there is not enough hard evidence for Cooney resume to stand up enough in regard to great fighters. All I’m saying is compared to the other contenders, the ones that are somehow remembered as champions because of the ridiculous sanctioning bodies, Gerry at least proved to be the second best in the world and had some sensational wins albeit none over a bonfide top ten heavyweight either. The other guys were not sensational. Nor did they ever do enough to be considered to have a legitimate second best in the world status. That whole structure of the top ten at the time meant that very few challengers to any titles were actually beating a real top 5 gate keeper to even get a ranking. Think of the ranking all those guys had when they challenged for a title and ask yourself what guy they beat to earn that ranking. It’s no more than Cooney did. They just wound up winning and losing a meaningless title.
I stand corrected. You make great points. Ron isn’t that bad of a Cooney opponent in the scheme of things.
So funnt to hear Sam glasses name dbblechn, my cousin worked for him and I remember getting updates about what was coming up in Gerry's career. When she told me he was going to fight Jimmy Young, I was not pleased, I'm a total young fan!
The only ratings I have that month are from Ring. The Ring - July 1980 (as of May 10, 1980) Champion: Larry Holmes (WBC) 1. Mike Weaver (WBA) 2. John Tate 3. Gerrie Coetzee 4. Michael Dokes 5. Gerry Cooney 6. Bernardo Mercado (tie). Leon Spinks 8. Leroy Jones 9. Osvaldo Ocasio 10. Scott LeDoux 11. Earnie Shavers 12. Jimmy Young 13. Muhammad Ali 14. Eddie Lopez 15. Greg Page 16. Jimmy Abbott 17. George Chaplin 18. John L. Gardner 19. Randy Mack
