GGG: Canelo has done nothing

I don't think he had a plan to take an easy defense and then vacate. And just because Khan was a welterweight coming up didn't make it an easy defense. I think Khan or Brook for that matter would be able to beat some of the top LMWs. I think his plan was to make the biggest fight possible, and Khan was the biggest name and he was willing to step up. If Khan didn't come along though he may have vacated and fought Smith in May. I think Canelo knew vacating was an option after Khan, but genuinely was considering fighting Golovkin. It was a combination of the disrespect given timetables, the inability of Golovkin to make weight concessions despite claiming he would do so for Floyd, and also the fact that he had Smith willing to put his title on the line at 154.

That list of names is seriously some of the best fighters in boxing. Floyd, Lara, Trout, Cotto, Smith and Chavez Jr are better than the guys Golovkin's has been fighting. And frankly, Canelo taking on all those tough fights are examples of Canelo daring to be great.

 

You're so right. It just highlights how Canelo was in pretty much a no win situation, and when you consider the fact that Cotto didn't pay the sanctioning fees, but I think Canelo just wanted to fight Cotto, and knew what he was getting into with the WBC, but made the fight anyway because well that's who everyone wanted him to fight when it was clear Floyd wasn't going to rematch him.

I agree with what you're saying, but in fairness Floyd didn't easily beat him at the same weight Golovkin is willing to Fight Floyd at. Remember it was at 152, and it still turned out to be Floyd's closest fight since Castillo / DLH.

I think the reason why Golovkin is willing to go down to 154 to fight Floyd but not Canelo is simple, and it's the same reason that Floyd wouldn't fight Canelo at 154.

It's because Floyd and Golovkin both know how dangerous Canelo is at 154, and they will only fight him if Canelo is put at a disadvantage through negotiations. Likewise, Golovkin, knowing how much more dangerous Canelo is than Floyd is, is willing to drain himself to fight Floyd thinking that even as a corpse at 154, Floyd would be easy work, whereas he knows that Canelo is a much tougher and more dangerous opponent, so he is not willing to concede any weight to Canelo like he would do to fight Floyd.

 

I think that your assessment is fair. 1) Canelo could fukk a guy up a 154, possibly even GGG if he is drained enough, whereas Floyd is just going to run around and pittypat his way to a win. 2) Floyd brings the big bucks 3) Canelo is, and always has been, in my opinion, a 160 fighter that is extremely good at draining down to a class lower. Golovkin I don't believe can do the same without seriously degrading his performance.

I agree 100% with this. I can understand catchweights between guys from different weightclasses to try reach a common ground. Within the same weightclass it's BS.

1) I don't think he should have conceded weight. But the reason Canelo did, is the reason GGG would come down to 154 for Floyd: $$$
2) We'll have to disagree on the "Canelo is smaller than GGG" story. I believe they are the same; Canelo is just better at draining.

I agree that Canelo / Floyd should have been at 154. I don't know how much of a difference the 2lb would have made, we can only speculate. Lots of guys say the last 2lb are what kills you - no doubt Geale would agree. On the other hand I'm not sure whether stylistically, Canelo would ever be favoured to beat Floyd - I simply don't think he cuts the ring well enough. But we do agree it was a d*ck move by Floyd. The nail in the coffin, if you will.

I think it's three reasons.

1) Canelo wanted to make more money than he would have with the mandated split.
2) He knew GGG would beat him at the full 160
3) He'd caught Mayweatheritis and had the idea that draining guys to beat them is OK.

I do note that Golovkin had to pay more than the mandated split out to Jacobs to make their fight (where Jacobs has essentially zero leverage to demand more) and that Canelo is OK with giving up a lot of weight to a lesser fighter in Chavez. Seems to me that there's a lot of risk/reward calculations involved in matchmaking these days, and I'm not exempting Golovkin from this at all.

I disagree. I think that there's not enough money involved, or if there is, that Golovkin thinks that he should be getting more of it. I also think that Canelo dropping the belt and then talking ish and not backing it up has generated the disrespect on GGG's part. And yeah, there is disrespect.

I've been watching a couple of his fights again. Canelo is definitely a cut above the rabble. I still think Golovkin beats him, but it will be a good fight, maybe a classic. I also have a sinking feeling that it won't happen, or if it does, it will happen when GGG is like 100 years old.

 

Not Liam Smith, his best win is probably John Thompson, who is boxrec #84. Murray, Lemiuex, Geale are all better than Liam Smith. Jacobs is far better.

Agree that Floyd, Lara, Trout, Cotto is a superb list of course.

 

Bow down before the Kazakh God, lowly creature!

 

That's an excellent list on the face of it.

BUT they are all 154 guys. You have to factor in the fact that the guys GGG beat were at a higher weight class and hence at a higher scale of difficulty.

 

Yes, I think Lemiuex is a better fighter than Liam Smith. Is Geale better than Smith? Maybe the version that fought Golovkin, but not the drained version that fought Cotto. I would say that's debatable. Murray? Can't argue with that. Jacobs? Yes I think he's a more skilled fighter than Liam Smith. But Honestly if Smith fought Jacobs I wouldn't count Smith out.

I actually think Liam Smith is a lot better than the guy we saw fight Canelo. He had a cut over his eye, and apparently he didn't do any sparring in preparation for the Canelo fight. I could be wrong, but I rate Smith pretty good for a 154 lber. And I'd be surprised if he loses to Liam Williams, though I wouldn't be completely shocked either as anything can happen in a domestic rivalry fight like that.

 

Yes, and part of the difficult of comparing resumes between Canelo and Golovkin is that Canelo was fighting 154 guys while Golovkin 160 guys. I still think you can look at a fighter and make comparisons, but there's a lot of guesswork involved.

To your point though, a guy like David Lemiuex could possibly knock out Lara, or Trout, or any of those guys probably. I personally rated DL very high but thought he fought the wrong fight vs Golovkin. Frankly, I thought DL - GG was similar to Liam Smith vs Canelo in that they just didn't prepare properly, didn't fight the right fight and got stopped. But both I thought were capable of winning that fight if they brought their A-game.

 

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Canelo isn't as good as some people think, i had him losing to trout and lara. His best win is probably against cotto, a guy past his best who actually started at light welterweight.

 

Interesting, I've always thought that Canelo is a couple of levels above Smith and beats him up any time, any day. What do you see in Smith, I guess it must be an eye test thing, but what am I missing?

 

I see Canelo as a level above everybody at 154 lol, including Smith. Not trying to start a riot when I say this, but I see Canelo as a level above Golovkin in terms of skills and all around boxing ability. But Golovkin has power and an aura of invincibility so even though I rate Canelo higher than Golovkin, I still know it's a fight that either guy can win. I just think it's very difficult to stop Canelo or Golovkin, so I could see Canelo vs Golovkin being a 12 round war and a controversial decision!!

As far as what I see in Smith, well he's good at cutting off the ring, and has a good variety of punches. That's why I favor him over Liam Williams. If he gets you in a corner, he has some good punching power. Check out his knockout of the guy he fought before Canelo. It was impressive. Canelo to me is on a whole other level, and I thought that Liam Smith could have possibly won a decision on Canelo by being the aggressor and throwing more volume. The problem with Smith (vs Canelo at least) was his punch resistance particularly to the body. I thought Liam Smith had a chance to eek out a decision on Canelo, but he wasn't patient enough and started being too aggressive and Canelo made him pay. Same with with Lemiuex vs Golovkin. DL got too impatient and just kept coming forward and got hurt. If he was more patient and got into more of a boxing match with Golovkin, he could have possibly won a decision.

 

Can't agree about Canelo being a level above Golovkin per se (although I would not be surprised if it's a close fight), but nevertheless, thanks for explaining how you see things.

 

I think it'll be a very close fight. Lets put it this way, Golovkin and Canelo are the two best fighters. I think Canelo is a level above him in the sense that he's been in their with more pure boxers. Golovkin has fought a lot of brawlers and less skilled guys.

Canelo is more fluid in the ring. Golovkin is heavy handed, don't get me wrong, but he like Floyd said is just "straight up and down". He doesn't particularly know how to feint punches, he doesn't move his upper body to avoid punches like Floyd and Canelo are able to do.

That's what I mean by Canelo a level above, in terms of boxing skill. When you fight slick boxers like Lara or Trout, you acquire a lot of those slick boxing skills and they become a part of your arsenal. David Lemieux, though he has very good power, he made himself too much of an easy target vs Golovkin. He doesn't know how to avoid punches like a Lara, Trout, Floyd, Canelo, Cotto, etc. Though if Trout or Lara fought David Lemieux, and DL lands a bomb on them, it could be over. But you know Lara or Trout would make it really hard for DL to land that type of a punch due to their footwork, superior boxing skill etc. So that's what I mean by a level above "skill wise" when I compare Canelo vs Golovkin. I'm not underestimating Golovkin. He could beat Canelo, I just think Canelo is more experienced as a boxer puncher.

 

More mind numbing minutia!

 

To be fair to Golovkin, I don't think he meant that Canelo has done nothing in his career. His English isn't the best.