GGG: Canelo is cheating

Lol they don’t call him Clenelo Averoids for nothing

 

The positive test doesn't indicate that he's a drug cheat since we don't know whether it is from contaminated meat or not. If it's from contaminated meat, then he's not a drug cheat. If it's not from contaminated meat, then we need some kind of explanation as to how this happened otherwise by default he'll be considered a drug cheat. Clenbuterol is not the kind of banned substance that automatically indicates you are a drug cheat. We know Mexico has a clenbuterol problem so that is why the positive test alone doesn't indicate that he's a drug cheat.

I haven't stated in any way shape or form that I think it's contaminated meat. I have no flipping clue how it got into his system, nor have I made that argument. I'm just not accusing him of being a drug cheat because there's no way for any of us to know if he is or not until we get some answers.

Is Canelo's co-trainer currently a butcher or was he a butcher several decades ago? I have the same questions and concerns you have if his team neglected to ensure that the source of the meat he was eating was clean. But then again they may have been doing that, it only takes one meal at a restaurant or maybe at a family gathering to produce a positive test of "trace amounts". I don't disagree with what you are saying here. But I just don't think it's fair to make that argument without knowing all the details.

 

How much Clenbuterol have you taken?

 

I think it would be interesting if Canelo said, ok since you think I am cheating I am pulling out of the fight.. GGG would really feel like an idiot then.. The draw with Canelo would stay and Canelo could go fight other guys and build his legacy.

 

I don't really know how to respond to this, I come on here discussing the news of the day in as unbiased and logical a way as I can. It seems that by not siding with the Triple G fanclub every step of the way, some try to act like I'm defending Canelo or I'm promoting GBP. Give me a break man, do you have any idea how ridiculous that sounds? I don't know what is causing you to react in such a way to what I'm saying, I just try to keep it real and not jump to conclusions based on emotion.

 

That's quite a picture you're painting. I can only dream of having a Ferrari or living in a mansion. Sheesh man you really are trying to put me up on a pedastal, trying to portray me as somebody "rich" to generate more negativity my way. I'll have you know that I have a very basic housing situation, I barely have enough $$ to afford my small basic apartment. Finances are tough in this day and age. I don't make much money because I didn't get hooked up with the high paying jobs like the rich kids. I'm as blue collar as they come, but I have a passion for boxing which is why I come on here and like to talk boxing. I could do without the personal ad hominem attempts to derail the topics. If you want to talk boxing BCS8, lets talk boxing, but trying to paint me as some rich kid is very insulting, especially when I have to struggle on a daily basis and work my ass off just to pay the rent.

 

Because just about all your posts ARE defending Canelo. You've been Anti-3G for a long time now. That much is obvious. And yet, between the two, one guy got busted with a PED, and you still take his side. You are NOT unbiased no matter how much you think you are.

 

I'm trolling, you have to know that. (Unless Canelo really is paying you by the word.) I hope that your situation improves. It sucks to be short of money all the time.

 

lol my situation isn't that bad but I mean I'm far from "rich". I mean it's tight financially, I just didn't like how you are trying to act like I'm living in some mansion or have some ferrari when you have no idea what my life is like. I'm not offended either, I'm just letting you know that I work my ass off to make enough money to afford my apartment, since you were obviously wondering enough to post about it lol.

I mean think about it, attempts on a boxing forum to act like a poster is "rich" or lives in a mansion, I mean that paints a pictures to generate more heat towards a poster when you have no flipping clue what you're talking about. Again, I'm not offended, I know that not being a Triple G fanboy generates all kinds of crazy comments around here, but that's what makes it fun in a way. I'm just responding to your post about how you think I live in a mension and have a ferrari, letting you know that my life is nothing like that.

 

I actually don't disagree with most of this.

I do however consider it likely that Canelo is a drug cheat. In fact to me it is far more likely that both Golovkin and Canelo are on stuff. I am off the theory that most pros are on something, and there's also circumstantial evidence which reduces the probability of the contaminated meat possibility.

But I agree that it's not 100% just based on the tests alone.

 

I'm really trying to not to take his side. In fact, I'm trying to stay neutral. I'm trying to apply logic to the situation. I don't think it's right to crucify a fighter who agrees to VADA drug testing to show he's clean and failed a drug test, for a substance that may or may not indicate he was cheating.

I respect fighters who enroll in VADA to show they are clean. It sucks Canelo tested positive but it remains unclear if he is cheating. That's my stance and there's nothing wrong with it. Trying to paint me as someone who is defending Canelo is absurd. I just don't think he deserves to be crucified until we know for sure that he cheated. (which we don't) Another problem is how he wasn't given much respect after the first fight about how well he performed. After such a close fight in September, the public should have been closer to 50-50 as to who they thought won. But we've seen polls around these parts that had it 90% / 10% Golovkin winning. It appears that ESB has become an extremely pro-Golovkin dominated population, so I mean I'm getting attacked because I don't trash Canelo like the vast majority apparently do.

So what, I'm not going to change my beliefs just to placate a popular mob.

 

OK well you're entitled to your opinion. I don't lean one way or another as far as if Canelo is a drug cheat. I'd like to believe he's not but I just don't know. So I'm not going to go around accusing someone of something that I don't know is accurate.

Golovkin said yesterday that his "stuff" is clean whatever that means. So obviously Golovkin is taking some "stuff" too.

What circumstantial evidence reduces the probability of the contaminate meat possibility? Let me guess, the fact that his levels were higher than that cyclist who got banned for taking clenbuterol during the tour de france? It seems to me that the circumstantial evidence and the differences between the two situations are being largely ignored. If you eat a big ol slab of Mexican clenbuterol steak I'm guessing it would cause you to test positive at higher levels the next day then if you took a tiny pill during the tour de france when you are staying hydrated while in an event. And when I brought up this point, I've been told that I don't know crap about how PEDs work, but of course I'm supposed to believe that the person telling me how wrong I am is some clenbuterol PED expert.

I don't claim to be an expert, and I doubt anyone here who disagrees with me is either. I'm just trying to apply logic to the situation. I don't buy the argument that the higher levels vs Contador's sample lessens the contaminated meat possibility. Since Contador's case was investigated and it was determined he did use a supplement since his excuse about being delivered a contaminated clenbuterol steak from Spain by a friend was preposterous and wasn't believed, it seems to me that eating a piece of contaminated meat would result in a higher level than taking a small pill of clenbuterol whilst cycling over 100 miles per day and drinking tons of water while doing so vs a guy that was testing while not even in full training mode, but then again I'm not an expert. And remember, if you disagree with what I'm saying, remember that the actual expert, the lab directed stated his sample however higher than Contador's was still in the range of "trace amounts" and in his professional "expert" opinion was consistent with eating contaminated meat. That's what he said, not me, and he's the expert, not you or any one else on this forum who wants to believe that Canelo is cheating, and will view everything through that prism.

 

I'd also like to believe that he is not. I'd be very happy if he could prove where the contaminated meat came from.

You may also have noticed that I have also refrained from explicitly calling Canelo a drug cheat because I simply don't have the 100% proof.

It's hard to say what he means due to the translation. I think most top boxers are on stuff, the difference is that some stick to legal (read: as yet unbanned) stuff.

- Canelo has said he doesn't eat red meat during his training camps. While the amount is consistent with contaminated meat, the fact is that you'd still have to eat quite a bit of it to reach those levels. Certainly more than one serving of steak.
- Canelo's team do know about the danger of contaminated meat, his current manager / co-trainer Jose 'Chepo' Reynoso is a former butcher.
- Canelo's muscle transformation over the last few years (although I'm highly skeptical of visual evidence, it is a small piece of circumstantial evidence).

None of these are 100% conclusive, but they do lessen the chance that the contaminated meat story is the correct one, much as we would like it to be.

 

I'd be very happy if he could prove where the contaminated meat came from too, or to get some kind of an official statement, either from his team or from the NSAC commision. Not that it would satisfy any of his detractors, but just to know what the supposed reason for the positive test was, the outcome of the investigation. I don't see how anybody can lean one way or the other as far as if he was cheating based on trace amounts of clenbuterol of a fighter living in Mexico where clenbuterol is known to be in meat.

Yeah I don't know what to make of that Golovkin ESPN interview yesterday. It was bizarre and loaded to say the least.

Canelo wasn't in full training camp when he was tested last month. At that time I'm guessing that was his last week before the press tour followed by a two months hard training camp. (which his team said would be in Colorado at high altitude) I'm guessing the statement about him not eating red meat during training camps was referring to when he's in full training camp in the weeks leading up to his fights. He may have been enjoying his last opportunity to eat red meat last month before that press tour and going into the full training routine of March and April.

Chepo being a former butcher doesn't mean he's personally screening the meat for Clenbuterol. The "they should have known" argument is a reach, and the fact that Chepo is a former butcher may actually increase the possibility that Canelo came into contact with contaminated meat. By this I mean, it's possible that Chepo had connections to local meat markets and Canelo put his trust in Chepo for providing him with red meat due to his experience as a butcher, maybe Chepo was naive of the Clenbuterol problem in Guadalajara, maybe he thought it wasn't as big of a problem there than it was in other areas of Mexico. Canelo may have put his trust in Chepo for providing him with meat, instead of importing his meat like many others had suggested.

Look at his physique at age 22 in 2012 at the weigh-in for his fight with Mosley and compare it to his physique at the weigh-in last September vs Golovkin. His muscles, his neck, his build look nearly identical in 2017 than they did in 2012.

I think you're reaching on all of these points as far as it lessening the probability of the positive test beating from contaminated meat. And it's not as though Canelo's team have come out with a contaminated meat story. I haven't heard anyone from Canelo's actually come out and say it was because of contaminated meat. The lab director and the WBC Pres have brought up contaminated meat as possibly being an explanation, but I think it's important to point out that Canelo or his team have not made any statements about what caused the positive test. A lot of people keep claiming that Canelo or DLH is using contaminated meat as an excuse, or as the reason for the positive test. It's not Canelo or his team or GBP that have come out with any kind of contaminated meat storyline.

 

its true that he might simply be running through a checklist of get out clauses.