GGG-Canelo media scorecards & CompuBox

Did you mean to say Round 2? That was the round you said you had G winning, so I'm guessing you saying Round 3 was a just a typo and you really meant Round 2. Please confirm and I'll take another look to confirm what you're saying about Canelo missing a lot.

Look, at least we're talking now. We're actually talking about the rounds which we disagree on and what happened in them which is a good thing. We go over these rounds and we can pinpoint where our differences are. This is the kind of discussion I've been trying to have since the fight.

I'm not exactly sure what round are referring to here in the bolded text when you said "the uppercut was a thing of beauty". I'm guessing you're referring to Round 8 and Canelo's uppercut with 41 seconds left being a thing of beauty, if so I couldn't agree more, and then you're saying G's right hand(s) and G's jab won him that 8th round. We're gonna need to examine what G landed this round, and compare it with that Canelo uppercut and the right hand with 21 seconds left which I'm happy to do.

Yeah I'm not sure how many times you can expect Canelo to land clean head snapping uppercuts like that. Canelo landed several nice uppercuts in the fight and I'm not sure G landed any. (at least not any that I can remember, if I missed one please bring it to my attention and we can compare who landed the better uppercuts in the fight) Canelo landed huge uppercuts in both the 6th round and the 8th round. The one in the 6th round was with 2:30 left in the round, however in that round I think G did control the remainder of the round with the jab and with his aggression, at least more so than he controlled in the 8th. The 8th appeared to me like G didn't do as well as he did in the 6th outside of the big uppercut Canelo landed, but I'll have to take another look. I know I gave G the 6th round probably due to exactly what you're saying, however in the 8th Canelo despite him doing a lot of backpedalling made it difficult for G to land anything. So based on what I've seen it appears that Canelo has more of a case for winning the 8th than he does the 6th.

I agree that the uppercuts in the 6th and the 8th didn't really seem to deter G but he obviously felt them and regardless they snapped his head back (or up lol) and appeared to be the biggest most effective punches in each of those rounds. Also it appeared to me that Canelo's uppercut in the 8th may have been a little more effective than the uppercut in the 6th, and I just really liked how Canelo closed out the 8th.

The 8th and the 9th rounds though in any event appeared to be a lot closer than you or many people are giving Canelo credit for.

 

That's where the enjoyment watching the sweet science becomes tedious for me. I trust my eyes and understanding of the sport enough to have a strong conviction of who won and who lost. I like to appreciate the art of boxing without having to make it overly complex by over analyzing the action. I've seen the slomo, time tamped videos some fans took the time to piece together and have rewatched the fight numerous times to get a granular perspective that really wasn't even necessary. The fight was clear in terms of the action and how things unfolded in the ring. I can tell you enjoy getting into the micro levels of this fight. I'm cool with that...but I don't find the need or the motivation to join you. No offense....that a bit more work than I'm willing to carve out.

 

I realize Canelo isn't going to land head snapping uppercuts consistently. He has other tools in his bag that he has proven to be effective. The take away that I got from watching Canelo over the years is he usually has a much more consistent work rate....he also is a fighter who walks his opponents down while still being an effective counter puncher and landing in the high 30/low 40% range. All of the areas mentioned were negatively impacted against GGG.

You really only have to look at Alvarez's body of work in fights where he won to see how disparate his performance was from his matches with guys like Kirkland, Khan and Liam to his last fight with GGG to realize he didn't win. When Canelo wins, he's making his opponents fight his fight....when he loses, he ends up fighting someone else's fight.

At the end of the day....a clean punch is one that finds the mark. Snapping the head back, making sweat fly off your opponent due to the impact, the sound it makes doesn't matter. All that matters is the fact it landed and if it inflicts damage or causes your opponent to think twice about taking risks. We as fans love to see blood, cuts and damage....knockouts or stoppages, but to win a fight in boxing that doesn't always happen. Floyd proved that with the style he used for a good portion of his career and we saw a more tactical fight between GGG and Alvarez's than the shoot out most people were expecting

 

I am detail oriented but I don't like to waste time or make anything more complex that it has to be. The fact is that we agree on most of the rounds, but there are several rounds that we disagree on.

For example, in the scorecard you've given, you had it 8 rounds to 4 for Gennady. The only two rounds standing between your card and a draw is Round 2 and Round 11 both that you gave to Gennady.

FYI All 3 judges Gave Canelo Round 2 and Round 11. Most people, even those that had G winning, gave these rounds to Canelo. For example, in Post #305, PH|LLA who I'm guessing had Gennady winning, said that he decided that he thought G actually won the 3rd round, but he gave Rounds 1 and 2 to Canelo. By you giving Triple G Round 2, you're disagreeing with all 3 judges and what appears to be most people, even those who had G winning, who gave Canelo Round 2. I'm just pointing out that you are in the minority on giving that Round to Triple G, and you have yet to explain why you gave G that round. I'm just trying to figure out what you saw in Round 2 that all 3 judges missed, and that other people who had G winning missed as they gave that round to Canelo. Seems like a reasonable question to ask. Timestamps are really only needed when we reach a stalemate after discussing a round and we are not able to understand each other's view of a round. That's when we can go into specific punches.

The problem with your language is that you are using words like "clear" to describe how the fight is scored but there are rounds on your scorecard that are inconsistent with all 3 judges and many of your fellow G fans who had G winning. If you didn't try to act like these rounds were "clear" as to who won I probably wouldn't press you on them as much, but when you're in the minority on who you thought won rounds 2 and 11, then I think any reasonable person would expect you to either explain why you thought G won those rounds or at least admit that these rounds weren't clear as you are suggesting, since on your card, G would need to win both those rounds to win the decision.

 

I gave Canelo 2 and 3 but felt 11 and 12 were tossups. ended up giving Golovkin 11 and Canelo 12 but it could be the other way round.

 

It appears that you and JohnnyDrama99 disagree on round 2 then. And it appears that you and PH|LLA disagree on round 3. PH|LLA and JohnnyDrama99 disagree on round 3. Hrmm, these critical rounds don't sound very clear to me now do they.

JohnnyDrama99 says it was such a clear win for Triple G, but yet on his card G needed to win either round 2 or 11 to win the fight. All 3 judges gave Canelo these rounds. BCS8, a guy who thought G won, gave Canelo round 2 and thought Round 11 was a "toss up" round. That don't sound too clear of a win with rounds like that now does it JohnnyDrama99?

Personally I saw Round 4 as a toss up round, but I thought Canelo edged it. Personally I saw Round 5 as a toss up round but I thought G edged it because he had that big punch with Canelo on the ropes. Canelo appeared to land more punches in Round 5, but the hardest punch fo the round was landed by G, so I gave it to him. Round 8 and 9, I could see why G won those rounds. In Round 8, G landed maybe 1 or 2 more jabs than Canelo did, he got in a few more glancing punches. But Canelo had the best punch of the round, that vicious right uppercut with 41 second left. Canelo despite landing less jabs I thought quite possibly landed the hardest jab in the round. Gennady threw a left uppercut in that round with Canelo near the corner, Canelo saw it coming and moved away from it. It may have grazed Canelo's beard, but it didn't land with any impact because Canelo was so elusive avoided its power. Canelo's uppercut in the 8th round that landed on Gennady was like somebody getting hit by a Mack Truck. Gennady's uppercut in the 8th round that "landed" on Canelo was equivalent of having a feather floating in the air and grazing your cheek as you're walking down the street. There's simply no comparison.

 

Yawn, GGG won and everyone knows it.

 

We pretty much all agree Golovkin won rounds 4-9, though. It's the rounds Canelo needs to win, that we're arguing about. Of these close rounds I ended up giving 4 to Canelo and 2 to Golovkin. But a die-hard fanboy version of a GGG supporter would probably be arguing for a 10-2 score.

 

This guy is fascinating though. I want to see his GGG alter ego get ino a battle with him. That thread would be like 100 pages long

 

Round 4 and 5 weren't close?

 

Denial ain't just a river in Egypt.

 

You could make the argument that Golovkin won every round

 

And you could make the argument that Canelo won every round, but no reasonable boxing fan would go to such extremes.

 

Don't you find it a little convienient that you, as somebody who's a G fan, and has G winning, is drawing a line in the sand stating unequivocally that Gennady won rounds 4-9 like those rounds are etched in stone, and can't even be questioned, but the rounds that Canelo won, now those, those we have permission to dispute, those are open for debate.

I mean, you still haven't gone through Round 9 like you said you were going to. I mean, no rush, take your time with that, priorities right. Lets debate the rounds that Canelo won first, and then maybe you'll get to that Round 9 and those rounds that Gennady won. . . someday . . . maybe.

Oh and while you're at it, how about you do you're little punch counting exercise on rounds 4 and 5, see what you come up with. Because we know how much G fans love to count punches and just give the round to one who lands the most punches regardless of quality or effectiveness.

 

They were competitive, but I thought Golovkin got the better of them reasonably clearly.

I'm waiting for the rematch to put this to rest. Either Canelo gets a full tank and shifts it to another gear or Golovkin realises that "winning on points" isn't good enough in Vegas and that he has to maul Saul properly, even if he has to take a few risks.

I'm really looking forward to it. As a GGG fan, I have to say that Canelo is one of the few boxers that I can look at and genuinely see that he could beat Golovkin on the right night and with the right plan. I couldn't say that before the first fight. It's going to be exciting.